Thank you for the scientific help on Apollo 16.
I personally think that you all did a very credible job in helping the science support
room and pre-flighting to get all the experiments ready to prepare the crew and the flight for Apollo 16.
I think that looking back at it now we can say we had a very successful mission that we attained
a tremendous amount of information from the flight. I know that the rock boxes back there
at the curatorial facility are bursting at their seams and the jealousers are going to have a lot to do.
I think also that because of the problems that arose and the necessity to change the flight plan that
you responded quite well to get the maximum science out of the time that we had available.
I realize that in all of our flights there hasn't been one flight yet that ran according to schedule.
And I am very sure that Apollo 17 will be in the same boat that we will have to change things real time
to get the maximum science out of the mission. And I think the response on this flight was superb.
Now today the briefing here is in two parts and four two purposes. First of all I like each principal investigator
to briefly describe the results so far obtained from his work. This is to sort of educate the crew
on what we obtained so far from Apollo 16 so that they might have information along that line.
Also I like to have him describe any anomalies that might have occurred that we do not know about now.
And second then we like to have the PI with the crew working with them to answer,
have the crew answer any questions that might still be puzzling him so that he might further his
analysis of the data. We have a lot of people to go through today, a lot of science to cover.
So we like to keep each briefing short and we don't want to cover things that are pretty well
that are general knowledge as of today. And we can start right out.
First one is Palmer Dial, Lunar Service Manitometer.
After each experimenter describes this experiment we'll have questions Palmer so we can ask the crew any questions after your particular talk.
There's a mic right over there.
You may set, stand, anything you want to do.
I guess the main functions of both instruments went normally.
I'd like to cover both the portable and the surface if that's acceptable.
The all-sep instrument, the surface magnetometer that you deployed first looked like it went according to plan.
The field that we measured as soon as it was turned on, I think it was turned on about 15 minutes or so after you deployed it,
was 230 gamma in a downward direction.
At that particular time that was the highest field that we'd ever measured on the lunar surface.
The calibration of the instrument went straight forward.
We did do a gradient determination of the field at the site.
At that site survey as we call it, function normally.
Thermal control subsystem is the best that we've put on the moon so far.
We have a delta T from lunar day to lunar night of 51 degrees centigrade, which is a factor of two better than our Apollo 12 thermal subsystem.
The leveling of the device was, I noticed in the photograph yesterday, that the bubble level was right in the center of rain.
The level sensors that we have are accurate to a quarter of a degree and they show that the instrument is level to one degree accuracy right now.
The instrument has new sensors in it.
These are more stable and it's really the first chance we have of doing network type measurements of the fields on the moon.
We do see whole moon, we have seen simultaneous data now from 15 and 16.
We see the magnetic fields due to any currents that are driven in the entire lunar sphere.
For the first time experimentally, we have always made that assumption that we've got an instrument that's setting on a one point on the sphere and that we're looking at the properties of a whole sphere.
We had some experimental evidence that that were the case.
Now we have unambiguously shown with this second instrument that is indeed the case and that the assumption is correct that we are looking at a whole spherical response of the moon.
You mean you're seeing 80 currents all the way through the moon?
We're seeing any currents that go around the whole sphere but with these new sensors now and with long-term data, what we're going to try and do is look as you say right at the center of the moon as they go all the way through.
Now that's what we're waiting for during the lunar night is a nice step function and a long term both before and after so we can see these currents diffuse right through the center of the moon.
The other thing that I think that is unique about this instrument that now we have a chance to look at the as-muteal variations in conductivity.
We can not only look at radial dependence of the electrical conductivity and calculated temperature but now we can look at the as-muteal or angular variations between Apollo 15 and Apollo 16 site.
And that spread is foreign now so that we ought to be able to extrapolate those measurements to a great circle around the whole moon as-muteal dependence.
The portable magnetometer was really exciting.
First of all, the first field I think you measured was 180 gamut down and in the Kaley it looked like that all the fields were in essence pointed in a downward direction and
at the Alsap site it was 230 gamut up near Spook it was 180 gamut and then on the other side of the limb where you parked the rover at the last station it was 120 gamut.
And at that station you put a rock on it and it looks like we measure about 4.7 gamut from that rock.
So the rock was large enough and it hasn't large enough at the moment that it looks like we did see a difference.
And these measurements do have an air bar on them that is like plus or minus as much now as 5 to 10 gamut because the solar wind and all the other inductive fields that are around that have to be subtracted out of the measurements from our magnetic from the tape and data reduction.
The measurements at station 5 were pointed upward and the measurements up near North Ray Crater were pointed downward at 300 and 14 gamut.
I think that there are some things that we could probably say making a lot of assumptions but it looks like if this highly material is older than the other it looks like that we have at least a chance of looking at the paleo magnetic history of the lunar crust from these measurements.
The high fields indicate that either the perming source the source of this field was if it remains stable over the time period that the mario was cooling then the highly material would indicate this high field would indicate that it indeed had a time variation in its magnitude or that the mario the flooding of the mario basins or whatever caused the
mario basins to be as they are today demagnetized the material that had been there originally.
In other words the mario material is less magnetic it seems than this material.
The interesting thing too is that the samples as you know are from the regolith and they've really physically been modified over the years.
I think that the measurements that we've obtained over scale sizes in the order of 10 kilometers indicate that we're looking at a depth well below the regolith and that this is indicative of fields that were at the moon during a time period before in the order of three to four billion years ago.
The direction and the other thing that we can say now from the measurements of the solar wind simultaneous measurements of solar wind and magnetic fields at the Apollo 12 and 15 site we can say that these high fields that you measured at the Apollo 16 site modifies drastically the direction and interaction of the solar wind with the moon at these places.
It should channel the charged particles and either different locations asymmetrically on the lunar surface in these areas and in some cases that one could now state that the scale size of the field are large enough so that you could form a shock and actually stand off the solar wind over a small region to the moon.
Yes that's covers both of them. Do you have any questions you want to ask to crew concerning anything about the deployment or any of the experiment that you know about.
Parallel let me ask you what is the effect of that rock after by the big LSM did that hurt it much?
No first where you were you parked the rover the first time in the TV camera we were extremely disturbed because the angle was such it looked like that rock was as big as the electronics box.
It looks like that the PRAs were oriented so it was shining right into them and all the IR radiation would really heat us up during the daytime but then the other view showed that the rock was relatively small compared to the dimensions of the box and didn't affect the thermal.
Subsystem at all and magnetically it didn't they really contain that much oriented field for doing that.
I guess one of the things I'd like to say is this what we intended to do was we intended to drive a hundred yards away from the out in front of the lunar module with the rover and do it sort of a north-south traverse looking for the best place to deploy
the LSM to get away from all these things. We ran into problems with the UV and that it took longer to do that last measurements and anticipated and we couldn't do that.
And I'm sure that somebody looking at the photos can find a better place out in front of the lunar module to put the total package but I like to say that package is so big.
And that surface was so blocky and so full of craters that under a circumstances almost blew we had to take what we got.
I hate to say that but then man I just wouldn't believe that that surface was as rough and it's covered with blocks as it turned out to be.
I think I could have still been walking up there with that package if I'd have been looking for a level spot. I got up on top of the ridge and I looked all
and said well that's a good place over there and I ran over there and it didn't look any better in the place I just
been and well that's a good place over there and I ran over there and finally after back to third time I said well look I'm
just going to put this thing down here at best we got but it's really blocky and a lot of fresh craters there.
Secondary.
Well I think that if you look at at least the magnetometers I looked at each of the photos that I could find where you
take in a picture of both the l-ceph magnetometer and the portable you picked you didn't put the thing next to
rocks or craters on the scale size it was big enough to affect the instrument and I think that's the main criteria
which was observed during that.
John and you know the rationale for doing that unplanned portable magnetometer reading?
No but it doesn't make any difference I mean we did it.
You can't explain it in real time that's alright.
One on a hardware the Sunsheel on the LSM the latch didn't come loose and I kept pulling the arms up to try to get that latch loose and I finally had to hold the arm down and
get the latch loose with the other hand and then as I tried to lock the thing the latch didn't fall off it tangled up into that little wire
that locks into the little ball and that was a almost lusted like that without locking it.
In fact Houston said go ahead and leave it but one more little effort the thing finally dropped off and I thought I was going to disturb the level but if you
seem like you're satisfied with the level.
The only thing I worry about there is that we've got a level sensor in the thing and if you just stare at that you can sort of see that
go but the the the azimuth you know when you read that shot a graph off that's the only measurement we get in azimuth ever.
And so as long as you could you didn't disturb the twisting of it then it's fine.
Okay thank you Paul.
Next experimenter will be Dr. Gary Latham passing size of it experiment.
Yes yes go ahead.
I was going to ask one question based on the few regions of the chemical contact, the gradients from which is passed out there.
Oh we don't have the because they got the fluctuations from salt and winter and the other is using policy.
I'm talking about the patient.
Sorry man.
Actually you took the other side was taking on after you had the point of such a right.
The three footer I think was that's correct is.
And we didn't touch it after that.
If there are any questions before any time after the discussion feel free to raise your hand.
Our fun began as you know with the S4B impact on this mission.
We also know we lost tracking on it prematurely which meant that we were not able to get the coordinates and time of the impact independent of our own measurements.
Nevertheless we could locate it fairly well from the two near stations 12 and 14 which made it a useful impact at the greater range of the station 15.
And we are looking at those signals now.
I think we can say that this peculiarly high velocity mantle as we call it that we had found in the 12 and 14 region can't be a global feature unless it is exceedingly thin thin slab of this high velocity stop signals we got.
And I must say that there is always the uncertainty that we really didn't see the first arrival up there because it was at 1100 kilometers.
And the first signal you see is quite weak as always the uncertainty is to whether or not it is the first the fastest traveling wave in the moment and not something else.
But if it is then this very high velocity material that we called mantle is not global or exceedingly thin layer.
And that is because we get velocity approaching 8 kilometers per second at depths of the moon of the order of 100 kilometers not 9 kilometers per second as we had in the 12 and 14 region.
There is also very weak evidence from that signal and I haven't convinced my colleagues of this yet know myself really but the possibility of a reflection from a very deep interface.
Perhaps 550 kilometers deep is there and we are looking for ways to see whether or not that can be verified.
In other words a primitive co-op perhaps some other reflector at very great depth.
So this impact will I think provide very useful data despite the loss of tracking.
We would have been of course much better off had been able to photograph that impact area and I understand that could tell time and orbit or clue to that.
We did not photograph it and that is for being.
The deployment was good I think the pictures tell the story as far as I'm concerned the instrument does get hot during the lunar day as the other instruments had.
This has been the case in every one. I think it's a matter of just it's just not possible to keep dust off of that shroud.
I think when you have to work that close to it and that that degrades the thermal control.
It does not degrade the seismic data. It simply means that the controllers have more work to do trying to maintain the thermal stability.
It's a problem we faced in every one of the missions so it's not.
In fact I thought the deployment the configuration of the shroud that I saw and so on looked very very good.
There's one little place where it's raised up is where the keyboard comes out underneath. It's turned on its edge a little bit.
That of course is something of a heat loss but it's not serious at all.
We padded it and rascal down because of the 15 problems.
But maybe it's before a guy leaves that alseps site if he's got a problem like it. Maybe it is alseps on 17. Probably it's not.
Alseps is on the seismic.
Those rascally things assume some different kind of orientation than they did before we left and maybe ought to go back one more time and make sure those things are on the ground.
I mean make sure those things are haven't changed.
I think maybe the outgast a little and then take up a different shape.
Well it's not only your near activities. I think when we saw that TV picture degrade on Lem Ascent.
It's obvious that a lot of debris is being thrown around and you just can't avoid a good dusting down from that source.
Our carefully prepared thermal services act more like black bodies than anybody figured on as a result of all this.
And we saw your rover signals which this time provided very very interesting data.
In that they showed another abrupt changes in signal level as you moved around.
We're not sure yet what to make of that. We're going to work with Bill Mulberger and his crew carefully on the traverse to see whether or not we can identify specific provinces in which the signal level is quite a bit higher.
I guess I would like to ask your impression as you were rolling along and given along the given EVAs that you you felt at given times the rover was bound to the ground.
The rover was bouncing noticeably more than other times that might have generated higher signal levels.
Sometimes she was off the ground or no doubt about that.
To the south EVA2 that area was a lot rougher than the traverse route to North Rae crater.
My impression of North Rae crater traverse once we passed Palmetto was it was really bolder free area. Very subdued old craters.
And the rover just spent a long much like a West Texas type terrain. Whereas to the south it was really rough.
Particularly on survey ridge when we were at Traverson that area with all the secondaries and blocks.
We managed to be up in here quite a bit simply because there were so many secondaries and blocks that we had hit some small ones to avoid the big ones.
The subjective opinion of mine also is that around at least it stopped 13 where we actually got off the rover.
The regularity did not seem as loosely compacted as to the south.
And in fact in North Rae crater at station 11 and 12 it was no more than a couple inches deep because we couldn't get the rake in without bending the times of the rate.
So the regularity was very thin. And I don't know what that means there's a very cobbly, the disly compacted blocks under there from that were thrown out or that are now that much covered or whether we just picked some bad size.
But we tried to rake twice and both times the only luck we had was kicking stuff into the rake. We couldn't pull the rake through the regularity.
And you couldn't stick the tongs in either. And the tongs wouldn't go in and every other place you could take the tongs and stick in the ground and stand up for you.
In general this area from the general character of our signals it gives the appearance of being the thickest pile of what we can quite loosely call regolith of any of the sites.
And I guess Bob Covech will talk on his results on that. And of course we await his mortar firing to give us a little more information on that.
Well we'll be looking at these rover signals and see if we can somehow pin them down to roughness of terrain or just what from the pictures that you took along the way.
We now have the quiet nighttime period and we're waiting for the first moonquake of this session which ought to be, well I was hoping it would be in the last 24 hours.
It wasn't but should be before May 12th. So in the next few days and of course with this last station we now have completed a very nice triangular array.
The other three gave us a very narrow base thing. Now we have a thing with a thousand kilometer base line which if it lasts for as long as they appear to be lasting will give us the tools to really do the job over the next couple of years.
And of course we'll be using that in the S4B impact from the next mission.
I'd like to turn to one observation reported from orbit that has interested us a great deal on that was the flash that was reported.
I haven't seen, I understand the transcript has now hasn't yet been typed.
I haven't seen it yet. So that's my only hope for pinning down the time. If you get into about five minutes with everything.
If you can help us pin down the time and roughly the location and we'll certainly look at our records and that would be an important piece of data if we recorded that.
We'd like to ask was this a colored flash or a white flash?
It's white.
How does it differ from the kind of thing you get with a cosmic ray impact on your brain?
I didn't see any of those.
I see.
You weren't crushed by flash.
Well we're very much excited by that as far as I know it's the first report of a transient event of some nature that's been seen from orbit.
I just have to wait for the I should have written it down and it just didn't occur to me to write it down.
Do we get a time on it and all that again?
It's on the DSE.
If I ever get that all.
Then I would correlate any information we get to the size of the faces.
How about its persistence?
It was just a flash.
In the way I hadn't noticed it, I was looking at a horizon that was showing up from solar corona or zidiacolite, whatever you want to call it in that region.
It was very shortly after we lost signal from Earth.
I was watching stars pop up over the horizon and got this flash which was in size.
I didn't know what it looked directly at it at the time it happened and it happened down in the side of my vision.
But it was brighter than the brightest star that I had in the field of view at the time.
I had that feeling that it was in physical or angular size it was equivalent to the size of the larger stars in my perceived.
But it was just an instantaneous flash and it took us a couple of seconds for it to soak into me.
It wasn't just a star popping up over the horizon but rather it had been distinctly below the horizon.
Is there a way for me to get that transcript?
I don't know if I would normally get it.
I'm glad you asked.
Oh that's it.
I forgot to mention this in the opening remarks but we have about 50 copies of this technical error to ground voice transcript.
It's right back there and for the PIs and the collis and there's a copy for you to get it back.
That's not what you have to do.
No, it's not me.
It's not me.
All the DSC.
And that hasn't been completed as far as I know.
One of the things that I'd like to mention is from orbit it appeared to me that there was a distinctly different unit up around North Ray in an area that a problem,
I'd say a third or a half of the traverse to North Ray went across.
And that may or may not fit in with your seismic delta.
That at some point between North Ray and the Lemley they would cross a contact with some kind.
Yes.
Well it's up to Ed my thanks for a very fine deployment that's all I have.
Thank you.
Any questions from the floor?
Well I don't know where the S4B hit but this is on the backside of the limb so I would assume that the S4B didn't hit there.
And as well after that.
Like a couple of days.
Lunar days.
Where did the S4B hit there?
Oh it did about 150 kilometers north of station.
What else?
When you mentioned the intersting of Darden, what did you do out there?
No.
The time I was doing this I was looking out the window and I had darkened the cockpit in preparation for one of the low light level photographic exercises.
And that's how I happened to be noticing that there was this distinct horizon which surprised me.
And I just happened to be kind of puzzling over that at the time.
Oh dear.
Yeah I question.
Sorry for being so serious.
No.
Now when your visors down.
I never looked.
What do I suppose to do that?
I suspect from what we saw on EVA on the way home that the inner visor alone has sufficient attenuation to block out stars.
But you could see them through the AOT and the lunar module and of course that has a light shield around it.
On our last alignment even with the crescent earth and the AOT we could see arc in our real, really so good that we didn't have to roll up the window shades in the cockpit.
So with the proper, if you look through a tube I'm sure you could see every star up there.
The only thing we saw on the lunar surface was the earth and you had to, it was directly overhead.
That was the only thing I saw in the sky.
John, you're going through the site in the camera.
Would you see anything that's like here?
You see your helmet reflected.
That's what you see. You have to raise your visor.
Get a light.
So you can get rid of all those reflections.
Okay, next one is Active Size McExperiment, Dr. Covatch.
Well we had several objectives on this experiment.
I'd like to summarize these basic questions like how thick is the seismic regolith would be one question.
What were the in situ physical properties of the lunar near surface material?
Thirdly, are there any distinct seismic horizons and how do they correlate with our estimates to geological horizons?
And finally, were there any regional differences in seismic velocities?
IE, something characteristicly different between the mario and the islands?
Well the deployment and the execution of the Thorpex Broin was outstanding.
Our clearer and the background noise was sufficiently low.
I mean got clean first breaks completely down the geophone line.
I'm sorry about that first one.
I was so really happy when that rascal worked that I stopped walking.
I started walking to the next one.
Well the record shows that for some reason you inadvertently didn't hold it in a charge position sufficiently long enough.
That's the reason when you did it the second time.
I thought I started walking too soon after the first one went off.
The one that failed, yeah that was pure procedure there.
Well if you walk too soon it didn't hurt us any.
Didn't body?
The data needs yet to be corrected for topographic effects.
There are some severe undulations in the topography and we can see this in the data.
But I can give you some first impressions of our results.
Number one there is certainly no variability in the first arrival of velocities across the geophone array.
And the parent velocity or the velocity is again very close to 100 meters per second.
Which seems to be the magic number for the regolith at many different places now on the moon.
IE out in the marion, now up here in the finally up in this highland site.
There are no evidence of flows beneath this geophone line.
I feel sufficiently confident we would recognize that.
Now the fact that we didn't recognize any variability in the velocity we were able to say one more thing
because we recorded the lamassent when we turned on the geophone line.
And that was a position of some 140 meters away from our first geophone.
And we did get a faster apparent velocity.
And it's very close to the value measured for frah-marl for breccius.
And so with this type of a number now, IE 2 to 300 meters per second underlying this regolith.
We can put a thickness bound on the regolith at this site.
And it is indeed very thick, at least 40 meters.
And I'll be able to refine that number a little bit when we get the mortars fired.
We also did turn on the ASE geophone array and recorded you know,
you're over approaching the limiter at the end of EVA3.
And we also got very interesting signals.
And we hope to analyze these in an analogous way as Gary suggested.
And that's about all I can say for the quick look of our data at this point.
We do have the concern, of course.
I do have the concern about the grenade box deployment.
I'm sure I've asked you that.
I haven't seen any of the pictures yet, so maybe the piece self-explained.
Maybe you could reassure me that it's level.
I guarantee you.
In fact, that was probably the only level place we had around there.
And I was really pleased to see when we got out the end of the,
to where we could deploy it that would be level.
It's really good.
And I reported the, I don't remember what asthma's heading that we put it on.
It was very close, seemed like it was 330 as opposed to 3333 that it should have been on.
That's also top of my head.
We had to go back and look, but I reported it.
And I found out later that you could break that pin by pulling on the leg,
but I certainly didn't know that, if somebody told me that doing the training
why I had gone right over my head.
But we do have three good legs in there, and I'll bet you that rascal can't get out of the ground
because of the way it went in.
It's sort of like pushing it into a quicksand.
And once it gets in there, I define it by the way to get that mortar box back out of there.
Because it really grabbed a hold of it.
Well, again, I'd like to offer my thanks for an outstanding execution of the experiment
and you couldn't ask anything better.
Thank you.
It was our pleasure.
Boy, it really worked good.
I was really pleased.
Any questions?
How did you define it?
You had a record.
Thank you.
You said it.
What was it like?
What's that?
You just need to speak.
You said, please.
Well, we defined the rate of it.
I don't know how the biologists made it.
I don't know how to create what you define.
But we defined the material which apparently covered much of the lunar surface
and has its characteristic velocity 100 meters per second.
And what kind of that?
Underneath this particular site, I mean, something that has velocities like fraught moral.
Breastly.
You said something about you were sure that there was no flow material underneath this.
I guess I missed the conclusion.
Well, we've done enough experiments on Earth.
And I say that we've been able to recognize flows because of velocities are
characteristically much higher.
And if you want to argue that there may be very thin flows, i.e. thinner than our sampling wave length,
which is like 2 to 3 meters, they could be there.
But we certainly, on the average, did see any big sequence of high velocity flows.
When you say high velocity, this 200 or 300 that you're talking about from the Ascent stage,
that's not high enough for us.
And it's every small crater that we looked into with exception, probably a buster crater.
We never saw anything that looked like anything, but, I mean, it just looked like more of the same,
it looked like, uh, regolith.
I mean, you know, we never saw anything that looked like outcropper.
And we were sure looking for it.
This, too, is we have a meter of velocity.
About the Lem Ascent, that was this breccia material that you see is underline the regolith, is that right?
That's fine. First look at it.
First look.
What do you find in the water?
Oh, that's another question.
What's the latest word on water firing, do we have any idea of what kind of phenomena?
Well, there's a meeting on Black Exact, you know, and I'm wondering what every question will be on May 23rd.
Bastille things.
And it's armed, too.
Okay, our next, uh, next slide, because the Solar Wind Composition, Dr. Meister.
Unfortunately, there is not much to tell about the Solar Wind Composition Experiment.
The FOIL was transferred to Switzerland at the end of last weekend.
We don't have any results yet, of course.
The FOIL was deployed during the first EVA and retrieved at the end of the third EVA
with a total exposure time of 45,000 and five minutes.
That's some three hours longer than the record of the previous missions, which was about 52 hours on Apollo 15.
The main difference between the FOIL of Apollo 16 and the ones of the previous missions is that some pieces of platinum foil have been attached to the previous design, which was composed of a pure aluminum foil.
These platinum foil pieces can be cleaned by a fluoridic acid, which allows to remove all the possible lunar dust contamination.
This technique has been tested in the lab on bombarded foils and showed that you can remove essentially all the lunar dust contamination without losing any measurable amount of trapped rare gas ions.
This is a very rare gas atom of Solar Wind origin.
This technique should allow us to determine the isotopic composition of the rare gas elements of Solar Wind origin up to the mass of possibly Krypton.
The first visual inspection of the foil here at MSC showed that the foil is crimpled, but essentially free of lunar dust.
That's of course only a visual observation.
We don't know how the foil looks like on the microscope.
I would like to thank the crew for the proper deployment and retrieval of the foil.
We are very pleased with what the foil looks like. Thank you very much.
I can't miss when it's the only world's sun here.
Point this at sun.
The thing didn't roll up like I thought it was going to, and I'm sorry I had to crinkle it, but it was so big and had to squeeze it down and get it into the bag.
It ripped once too. I guess you saw that.
That's only a problem of aesthetics. It doesn't hurt it.
It's okay, good. I didn't thank you, Dad.
God.
The local magnetic field is staring off the floor over there and the problem is a lot of bacteria.
We don't know yet that I think that we have a discrimination between the lighter and heavier elements in the solar window.
We have to check that maybe that there's a dependence on the height over the lunar surface of the composition between the heavier and lighter elements.
But we have to check that first and see.
The lighter particles, the more the light is important.
It also would be deflected much more than the heavier ones.
Can you see those, I don't know, this probably a stupid question, but these cosmic particles that cause the light flashes.
I was seeing them on the lunar surface during the sleep periods.
Are those things registered on your experiment?
No, they have higher energies and they go through the foil.
Huh?
What are these blusers thinking?
Can you tell me a difference in the materials that you think the time is a 20 times, and you brought the bacteria in your film and you might have a 20.
No.
No difference there.
Looking at it one time, I thought I saw some white streaks on it.
It might have been just the way the sun was.
It might have been those platinum strips that I never noticed when I had been placed.
I really don't know.
It just looked like I had a couple of randomly oriented streaks on it to me from the Wint Lim, Wendell.
When we rolled it back up again, instead of rolling straight up, it rolled out in a big long thing and I had to redo it again and when that happened I ripped it and had to crunch it now.
We don't see any difference between the foil we sent up and the foil that came down except of some lunar dust on it.
Nothing else.
I think it was a cruel question.
Do you have an idea how the foil was oriented?
Was it the central vertical to the port?
Yes.
Mine mean along the gravitational force lines or was it reclined or incline?
It's hard to tell it from the evidence.
I think I put it in almost parallel with the gravity vector.
I want to slow it a little but if I recall it was it's aligned almost vertically.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
The next subject will be the cosmic-graded tector, Dr. Bob Pleasher.
See here.
Oh, okay.
I'll see you later.
The PI's could be here this morning.
They're busily at home studying the data that they got back.
I have some words from them that I'll pass along as to what they think they'll be able to see.
They're very excited about the possibilities they have.
Early in the mission there was a solar particle event that occurred which will enhance their data very significantly.
They think they'll have the opportunity to see particles from the Sun that on an ordinary mission they would have never had the opportunity to see.
When they got the experiment back panel one did have considerable dust on it.
This from the best we can tell without any analysis came from the landing itself from the blast up from the DPS.
Panel one was hot in the taking the panels apart.
Panels two and three were cooler and panel four was of the same order of temperatures as panel two and three.
Cosmic grade data itself in the plastics appears to be degraded somewhat because of the temperature.
But they're very hopeful that a great part of the data will be retrievable.
At the first look on panel two is Dr. Pleasher says that the number of particles they see on the plastics indeed are a great deal higher than they would have normally anticipated.
Indicating the effects of the solar particle event and they really haven't in detail etched the plastics or analyzed them they're just beginning to do that.
They think they are usable.
Yes the plastic is a surprise because we had some linked discussions about this pre-flight and I can never understand how we're going to fly this rascal to the moon and get it there with us with these long periods of attitude hole that we're going into where it might see plus 250 all the time.
Of course I'm sure those three revs in lunar orbit prior landing didn't do any good either because we were oriented many times so that we're facing with the maintained communications we had the sun shining on that rascal all the way around.
I really think those 140 temperatures that we saw in the panels if you go back and look at it thermally you're going to find out they had to be there long before we ever got the thing on the ground.
I was really concerned about that as to why we put some kind of shield in orbit but it was too late I guess to do this.
Well the thermal design was such that it could sit I believe in direct sunlight almost indefinitely without indeggredation it's the hour heating off the lunar surface that really cooks from the thermal people say.
I think and it's hard to say and we did see the early picture did show that the temple labels had already changed early at the beginning of the EVA.
They were black first time in the world.
I guess is the 15 hours the thermal analysis says if there's like 15% dust on the panel after 20 degrees of sun angle or so you will sort of exceed the 140 degrees on the frame.
It appeared that there was probably 50 or 60% dust on the lower part of the panel or maybe even higher than that and it's been about 15 hours on the surface.
So it may have just turned out to be a number of problems that probably ones that could not be avoided under the circumstances that caused that lower panel over heat.
It was the hottest and the next panel was about 20 degrees cooler the best we can tell in the panel.
Third panel up was 10 degrees cooler than the second panel so it seemed to be a dust problem but it doesn't seem to have hurt the data too much.
The panel 4 was the one which we were afraid wasn't going to be activated because of the anomaly on the red line.
But after they have taken the panel apart apparently every portion of the experiment was activated to some degree or another.
The neutron portion was partially deployed and they think they will get some data from it is not as much data statistically as they wish they had.
But every portion of panel 4 does look like it will provide some useful data and they have a lot higher hopes now than they did when they first saw the gear.
Apparently the problem and we haven't sent the hardware back to the manufacturer for analysis but apparently was a malfunction in the assembly and caused that thing to jam.
Well we could have pulled if I didn't know about it at the time we got that pair of pliers out there and pulled harder.
The investigators opinion wise it would have done well good.
It wouldn't have very severely jammed and he doesn't think any additional effort would have freed it. It was jammed pretty bad.
But I think in all they are very excited about the data and I think they are very optimistic now that they will get considerable amount of data from it.
The other thing is that on panel 4 is those experiments which are activated by pulling the cord around a small fraction of the total part of the panel 4.
That's true. We still have a lot of good data in the system. The data is in the dam that has never occurred.
That's for all practical purposes.
I don't think we, in fact I'm sure you may find a fingerprint on there but if there is we really are careful to get it out of there and once we got it loose we have to use your 10-11 carer and fold it up.
I don't think there is any proof fingerprints on the panel surfaces.
That's correct. We looked at it very carefully and it was except for the bottom part of panel 1 that you could see.
It was a spray pattern. It was very clean and the PIs were very pleased about that.
The cell of the part of the panel.
Yes, it started on about, I believe, Monday which was the day after launch and went through about Wednesday.
It was about a two or three day type event. I think the peak must have been about Tuesday.
There are some satellite data available and I don't have that on hand.
It was a small event but for this solar cycle it was very surprising that it happened at all during the mission that the habit during the portion when the cosmic ray was deployed or available to the encampter.
The probability of that is very small so it's a very gratifying thing to occur.
I'm curious about the dustbin. Did you guys observe any dust on the thing or any other part of the limb at that level?
It's always been our question. If it does, is it sent out in a pretty thin layer?
I'm sure it's sent out in a thin layer but with all those frontal blocks around there it's a possibility some of it could come back at you.
It was extremely hard to see and when we photographed it the lights are not similar to the sun. Probably much less than intensity but yet the photographic lights did wash out.
It's a very pale kind of dust but it's very predominant and it came up from the corner day even in a pattern that you would expect it to be blown and there were some black streaks in there that are prepared to be melted something or other on it.
I think they are going to attempt to chemically analyze the material and try to find out what it is.
The first panel must be about chest height.
Any other questions?
The frame of that thing was hot. It was the only thing I felt through my gloves.
It was jamming and John tried to pull it out and I was holding the frame and I started feeling it through my gloves.
It was jamming at the base right at the bottom part.
There was something that broke free right at the base and then it just came out like it had grease on it.
Maybe we spilled some orange juice over it.
No way. That's the only thing we didn't spill orange juice on.
It's not that you didn't try it.
That's a good cement you guys. You ought to start thinking about that.
Suppose that stuff to vacuum more.
Okay, our next experiment was the FAR UV camera Dr. Page.
I'll put a banner in one of the yellow.
Just see it all in a complete goal.
The purposes of this experiment were to obtain photographs and the viral profile of the geocoroner in the upper atmosphere of the earth.
I should have said these photographs of course, in the food spectra as well.
Before wind clouds possibly, iter stellar hydrogen.
Colors of stars and the viral profile and possibly intergalactic hydrogen.
We had a lot of troubles I guess John well knows.
Before launch the difficulty was to keep the camera dry because it's optically sensitive surface would immediately run away if it got damp.
This was accomplished with a bag that caused Captain Young a little bit of trouble in practices in advance but apparently worked alright on the lunar surface.
That's great.
The second difficulty was getting through the Van Allen belts without fogging our film.
I'll show you in a moment that we did that alright with a rather small amount of shielding around the film cassette.
Then we had some difficulty with the lens being in the way.
This came about because of the delay and touched down high sun angle and the necessity to keep the camera close to the lens so that it would be in the shadow.
With its gold surface it would have heated up very rapidly but it had been out in the full sunlight.
The accomplishments that I will show you in a moment on the screen include 92 photographs in the laminar alpha imagery and 53 spectra.
Some of them extending from 500 angstroms to 1550 angstroms.
I think the farthest into the ultraviolet anybody has ever taken astronomical pictures.
We may get evidence of gases in the lunar atmosphere from several of our pointings which were low across the lunar horizon.
If anything were coming out like geysers of water or whatever it is we will certainly pick it up.
The data on these photographs are extremely numerous and it will take us an estimated six months to a year to get them all out which will be done with the big computer here at the MSC.
Dr. George Brothers who is the PI and who designed the camera happened to be free today to work on an Arabian flight and is here.
We will certainly make comments whenever he sees something to comment on the photographs.
We have the first slide. I might say that I got into trouble with the American Photographer's Union in thanking the prints of these because I am not a member of that unit.
They tried to throw me out of the darkening pool over here.
This is probably one of the most dramatic pictures of the years that shows a rural belt on the dark side.
If you are looking at the years with the sun off to your right, the south pole of the earth is down and that funny lip-like thing sticking off to the left of the bond is aurora we think around the South magnetic pole.
The most striking thing is the next lip up which on the original you can see better than on this slide goes around the full back side of the earth.
It is called the equatorial auroral belt and this appears back of the dark side in the upper left corner.
The third lip is another belt. It looks at first as if that was just all one but there are two separate belts there and was quite unexpected.
What is the condition of the earth's sacks of size?
It is 8000 miles cross.
You will.
There is some halation here and I guess I am not too sure and perhaps George knows.
This is a special Eastman NTB III emulsion, very very thin.
The exposure was made with electrons not with light. It is an electronic camera.
The dimension works out right. You cannot see it too well on this print.
There is a ring or a limit to the field which on the originals is 30 millimeters across.
It is 20 degrees in the sky and the earth is 2 degrees and it checks out.
The dimension you see there is 2 degrees across the full diameter of the earth.
You see this as the equatorial or a little belt.
I think what John says is that one study is third line for the bottom.
He says the back side and you see no.
No, you cannot see through the earth.
That is why I ask you if you see the earth and cover it.
No, the geometry is such that that is probably inclined 30 degrees to the magnetic equator and is an unexpected auroral belt.
It will take a little more figuring to figure this out.
As I just said, my guess looking at the picture hasn't been measured accurately.
It is 30 degrees north.
You will notice on these pictures that they are overprinted.
That is because I am not a member of the photographer's union.
The originals have a good deal more on them.
This picture was taken excluding hydrogen light, lemon alpha.
We have two filters on the camera and this one is taken in light between the wavelengths of 12, 30 and 15, 50 angstroms.
Now the next slide.
Is that all the earth or is that twice point here?
No, it is the earth.
Is that twice the image?
No, no.
As I said, the little halation which makes it a little bigger than it ought to be.
Now this one, it is exactly the same view, it was taken after John so accurately pointed the camera at the earth.
The earth is in the middle there and if you look real hard you can see the dark side of it off to your left.
This is the geocorona.
The streaks are an instrumental matter.
Actually we have a barrier membrane that George put very close in front of the film to keep a visible light from getting in there.
And the barrier membrane wasn't quite uniform and that is where the streaks come from.
The circular thing on the right is an overlap, another defect.
The little motor that advanced the film between exposures didn't pull it quite far enough for this one.
And those dust specks I guess are my piped it back on the slide.
That rastly thing was moving.
At first it wasn't moving, the wheels weren't going as far as they did before the end.
Now we have a complete transcript of everything you said about it.
And in looking at the film which I have done in great detail, you can see the most serious defect in that film advance was during your short exposures on the earth.
John everywhere else it worked fine.
And I have an idea that pushing the button so frequently sort of confused the motor and it didn't turn as far as it should have.
Well in any case you'll notice that the shape of the geocorona is predicted by Dr. Meyer at the Naval Research Lab.
It's got a dimple in the back, down the sun, the sun is still to the right here.
And our other photographs show that it extends at least twice as far as you see here off to the right.
The print of course can be printed dark or light.
And if I printed this one lighter I'd have got the background all over the whole slide and you wouldn't have been able to see it's pretty a picture of this.
Now the next slide shows the one further to the right.
The sun is still to your right. The earth now is off the edge of the picture to the left.
This was one of the sequence taken through the night between EVAs 2 and 3.
You see a star background here and again the geocorona, those streaks which are not real, extending actually right across this frame if you print the thing lighter.
Now the next slide shows the two of these combined and I printed a lot darker and I guess it's not as artistic an effort as I had hoped.
The geocorona produces is hydrogen in 1216 angstroms line of alpha.
And the next slide shows the spectrum actually taken on that first slide.
The spectrum is dispersion is vertical and that white band across horizontally is line of alpha.
You see how strong it is. The earth is in the middle of this picture and the spectrum of the upper atmosphere is spread out on that vertical line from far ultraviolet down at the bottom to nearer ultraviolet up at the top.
Bright line just above line of alpha is 1304 which is oxygen line and George do you want to describe this one more detail?
We've so far only made a very crude analysis of the spectrum by comparison with the laboratory spectrum made in the preflight calibrations.
However we have tentatively identified the 584 line of helium, the 834 line of atomic ionized oxygen, the 1026 line line beta of hydrogen.
These three lines are the first spectral measurements in the earth's upper atmosphere.
All previous measurements have been limited to wavelength's long word of 1100 angstroms which we also cover and which includes the line of alpha line in 1216, the 1304 and 1356 lines of atomic oxygen.
And the Lyman-Herk-Burge-Hopfield bands of molecular nitrogen between 1216, 100 angstroms.
The Lyman alpha line of course is by far the strongest emission that we have seen in any of our spectra.
And it's the only one that we have conclusively identified in any of the spectra that do not include the earth.
However by comparison of spectra taken with and without our lithium fluoride corrector plate which cuts off at 1050 angstroms we will be able to determine whether we see a general background in the 584 line of helium and the 1026 line of atomic oxygen and hydrogen as we expect though there will be much weaker than the Lyman alpha line.
You got that other spectrum.
Okay, you know those can you hold on a minute.
I think the order he's got in has the Magellanic Cloud and we're probably taking too much time.
We have the next line.
Well that's it.
This is without the corrector plate.
You notice the Lyman alpha here in broder.
The definition is poor but as Georgia just saying we get lines further down in the ultraviolet.
Spectra taken without the corrector plate with it.
And you see here too these other lines are not uniform.
This is a spectrum that was obtained with the earth off the edge here.
So it shows that the geochronicals right across this slide as I said last time.
So that's 100,000 miles.
Other lines here show that either other materials in the geochrona or beyond the geochrona.
I guess I'm going to take a little while to figure out which of which.
Go ahead.
The next two slides quickly show the last one.
The Magellanic Clouds which are both John was worried about what Bell and the Sea meant.
The Magellanic Clouds that's the initial what the initials refer to.
The picture on the left is with hydrogen with planet alpha.
The picture on the right is without.
In this far over out of region all that you are seeing here are the very hot blue stars.
Over here you see the clouds of hydrogen gas.
So the difference between these two photographs is hydrogen.
The regular.
The Magellanic Clouds are nearby galaxies.
So we have a galaxy with all the stars and then we need to spread out in front of this study.
Carl and I was with me special studies in these Magellanic Clouds.
And it's very much interested in all the already has copies of these photographs.
You notice that the hydrogen is not just from the Magellanic Clouds.
The stuff up here is out in the open sky and just what caused that background.
Is there any other slide?
That's the last one.
We had a couple of questions for John.
One was that sticking which had us worried.
You talked about the the instrument.
Mayfly on the Apollo 17 Rock Road.
Very interested in it.
Yeah.
And so what was what was the sticking did it continue right through?
You didn't mention it in the A3.
I got it got worse all along.
I just got the feeling there was some kind of hang up between in.
Possibly long term vacuum exposure or something to the operation of the way it was working in Asmuth.
And I never was able to never able to do it.
No, it never got better.
In fact, this is the longer it sat there.
Maybe the cold.
It just seemed to get stickier and stickier.
And every time I had to, every time I got to a new setting in Asmuth,
it completely destroyed the level.
And we were unfortunate that we were on that slope right there under the footpath of the limb.
So I had to go back and re-level it every time.
And we were really working at the limits of the level of ability of the machinery, I think there.
You see there didn't make much difference.
Is that Magi-I-Cloch should have been out in the middle of the video?
I know.
You were off by that much because...
But if we were on a level slope, there would have been no problem in getting the bubble right in the middle every time.
Asmuth had worked easily, it would have remained level.
But I sure don't know what it was.
It couldn't have been dust that got in there.
No, I don't think we had any...
In fact, I'm sure we didn't have any dust on the legs up that far.
The film is that you brought back and buried all the dust on.
If I could put it in the new...
Well, if it got dust on it, it got it inside the limb.
There was plenty in there once we got into zero gravity.
Although I don't know how to crawl through two bags.
That's why I was quite surprised.
I don't know if I were disappointed because we were going to collect a little bit of dust on it.
Any question in the court?
And I'm sure it got some dust on it when I removed it, though.
I got a little, a very small amount, which I'm legally keeping in my business.
Don't tell anybody the FBI will be around to see you.
Did you see evidence of the fact that you were shooting or all shot?
Some far we have not seen any discontent ody in the up sun,
due to the corona, which would be the corona, kidney, kidney, and so on.
It just sort of triples off the weight, and you go somewhere from the earth,
and there's no sharp drop.
We're really not as far as the shock.
I can't remember the radiation.
Is it only 10, 12?
No.
Okay, any more questions?
Next subject is the Lunar Geology Investigation, Dr. Mulvard.
Okay.
For the benefit of the astrologer in the crowd,
there's been very little evidence for water, and none so far for geysers.
Our experiment may not be as far reaching as there,
but on the other hand, I think we've made a large step toward understanding the history of the moon,
and therefore the earth, and therefore the solar system.
And if you guys can find any more, we're out there with you.
So far, we've completed the mission itself,
and all major objectives for the pre-plan traverses were reached,
and we're sampled, and we're described, and photographed.
As far as we can tell, with our quick look at the photographs,
all of these were done well.
We've produced a so-called greenback at the end of the mission operations itself,
which was a summary as ever.
Knowledge at that time that was based on crew observations, TV, and the pre-mission data.
Included in that thing are station sample maps,
which were derived from the TV in real time,
and that was a very useful tool to us.
A sample inventory, a film usage inventory,
and a station locations, again, resected from the TV pans.
By the end of last week, we could receive black and white two-time enlargements of all film.
These are the typical drugstore quality prints.
And sooner or later, we'll get good quality, so our analysis was very brief.
We've assembled all the panoramas.
Sample location studies are a mirroring completion.
The film inventory is also a mirroring completion.
The geological analysis is still in its infancy,
and I suspect it should progress rapidly now that we've got all this inventory in and over with.
The geistix of damage, it picks you up, takes time to get them organized.
We've had one session with a crew in the LRL with samples,
and most of our questions need samples in hand.
And those will, I'm sure, will be able to discuss later.
And so the questions that have gone relate more to surface observations
that maybe we can amplify.
And some of these are questions that we've asked you before,
but I have a few Polaroid prints of these photos that maybe conjossil our minds
and assistant refining some of the answers that we've gotten on the debris
after the EVAs or on transfer.
Our photogelotic mapping group primarily talked about rays by their whiteness.
There were a few spots where they thought they were seeing dark rays.
Now you recognize both light and dark colored rays,
particularly the South Ray picture.
If I could have a slide, one please,
which is the South Ray panorama,
and the print I've just given to the crew, a single frame from that.
There, I think we can see light and dark.
And the real question I'm after is,
what led you to say that you were on or off a ray?
And secondly, were there any visible differences in the rock types
as you drove by or had a chance of sampling ray material?
Yeah.
Sure looks that way.
The hills are at the bottom.
Yeah, I think the thumb thread goes in the upper right.
Good, the projection just give that a 180 please, around a horizontal axis.
That one's got the same problem. There we go.
Now it's a hill instead of a hole.
This is your pan from station four.
You see that black line coming over the...
This photo really doesn't do that in some justice.
All right, prints never do.
Well, I mean, you really have to see it to believe it.
That white is so much quieter than the contrast that we're able to get out of the photographs.
I think when I looked at it,
my assessment of this,
which is kind of bad place,
was that it was a black ray coming out.
The right one there on the photograph.
And it probably went right down that,
as you know, the photograph that showed the black area coming out of South Ray.
Right there.
And there's a series of black blocks.
There's a bunch right there.
Left edge.
And there's also...
Charlie described this in real time.
There's some more black blocks in there.
And they seem to come out in ray patterns too.
And she think Charlie,
that's one spectacular crater.
That ray coming down the South...
South right edge might have been the ray that made...
or at least part of it that made Survey Ridge.
Because it just ran right across those wreck trap craters
and we could see it going all the way down.
Is that the bright ray you're talking about in the lower right?
This ray right here, Bill, came right through study,
right up over and right out Survey Ridge.
So that was the source of your terrific block field there?
Man, and just amazing how much rocks of rascal lay down.
I just couldn't believe it.
Try to build the in close to that thing.
It would probably have been very interesting.
We should have had another EVA to find out.
I think so heat flow won.
The reason we call it our ray was really a...
a bunch of secondary craters and a bunch of blocks.
And they thinned and thickened as we...
I think traverse raised,
raised, but we never did get completely out of blocks
to the south, to the traverse to the south.
There were always five, at least three to five percent
of the surface head cobbles.
And I say cobbles, 20 centimeter blocks and larger.
And the blocks were generally asymmetrical
on us to the crater or the crater shape.
Was elongated or just a great spattering of craters
as why you're calling them secondaries?
I think subjectively we felt they were oriented from south ray all the time.
There was really just a subjective feel as we were driving by them.
There were a lot of the blocks that were not associated with any craters.
There would be a pile of a series of secondaries,
but around for a couple hundred meters it'd be more blocks.
Like as far as you could see, there'd be blocks just scattered over the surface
that were not associated with any secondaries.
But the true secondaries were...
We did see some that were classic where you could...
The ejector was down range from an important right to south ray.
Station 4 for instance, what's the one that was...
Can I have slide 4 please?
I might add that these black rays and the black blocks that you see here
were also evident at baby ray.
Can you rotate that one too?
And to a lesser degree, the sampling at North Ray
had an appearance of being black and white matrixed.
Black and white rocks.
To these black streaks go into the crater themselves down,
vertically down into the sides of the crater.
It's south ray, yeah. That one on the left that you saw there was...
You could track it over the rim and back right across the rim.
And can you see that from orbit?
You can see a lot of these fresh, but like black street craters.
This one...
South Ray does not have nearly the obvious dark streaks that run down inside
and outside that many of the other craters do.
There was dark material, dark appearing materials were obvious in the crater interior.
But I never recognized it as being a ray that was thrown out with a radio dimension.
Yeah, I think looking at the photography, the feeling we got from looking at South Ray
was that that black streak was just an absence of any rays.
But I think it's from the blocks that must be black ray material.
Dark material.
Maybe the dark matrix rocks would produce that darkening.
It's petered out a lot faster than the white rays of...
You know, within a quarter of a cratered image.
From the bottom of it.
Those could disappear just because of their general appearance.
Could.
Like the local regulates, the white ones being so obviously different.
You'd be easy to recognize.
I suspect why the mappers did the same thing.
Here's your pan, John, from... or part of it, looking up sun.
And this crater you suggested was a secondary.
And therefore, the sampling that you were doing primarily over there to the left corner is where the rover is.
Would be South Ray ejecta as the principal source.
There's one reason we wanted to move you on.
And I think that was a good decision now that we look at your photographs and from what you told us.
We sample this crater up on this close-in rim and down the rim a little bit.
But I...
Man, that's not a classic secondary.
I never saw one.
That's...
Type locality if you're part of the geological bridge.
And you can see the debris from there.
You just scattered all out in here to...
The rover's back over here.
Down slope.
You can see it right in the left corner, just the edge of it.
Oh, yeah.
And I think you're standing there, Charlie.
Probably on my face.
Okay.
Okay, the...
Related to this are some of the craters that you called indirated and had clods around them.
The guy who has photos, seven, please.
And that'll probably need a 182.
Okay.
Oh, no.
Number seven.
Oh, yeah.
That's plum.
Okay.
Now that plum's got a little bench in it.
And on the pre-mission work, there were quite a lot of them that had benches and suggested that there was an indirated layer that was shallow compared to what the crater counts said that the age of that whole surface had to be.
We just heard Covatch tell us it was a very thick regular here, which is what it should have had by the cratering stories.
And yet there's always this little bench.
We're wondering now whether that bench has some relationship to the ejector from the South Ray and North Ray craters.
And therefore, it might be what you brought up here on the rim of plum and some of the pre-ray indirated regulates.
Do you have any thoughts that could go into that?
That one, what I was calling the indirated reguleth fill.
What?
No.
The indirated reguleth I was talking about was two meter size craters.
Two meters.
Yeah, two meter size.
And there were little teeny quads, no bigger than a grapefruit, and that were symmetrically around a very shallow crater that had a hackley black glass right in the center of these little craters.
And the biggest one was no more than two meters.
You see down in the plum, see those that outline of rocks down in there?
No, keep going down.
Right here?
No, over here.
What do you point to?
Okay.
See those rocks right in there?
I think...
Near the bottom of the room.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised, but what the most likely candidate for a rock that was from down, either in the bottom of plum,
or from the lower part of flag was that rock piece of rock that we chipped off of.
It was located right in the center.
Yeah, just up to the same.
And I...
Because that had been...
That was well under the...
I mean, it was the submerged rock, and I got the feeling that it was sort of local to the area.
I mean, I don't see how it could have been from South Ray, or unless that was extremely soft when it plunked in there.
I didn't rule out that, but I mean, that would be the most likely candidate of the ones we could get to.
We could...
The no way we could have got down in there and got those rocks.
That's true.
And gotten back.
So, you took your tether away from me.
I don't imagine you want to explore those craters.
Okay, the buster crater of photo 8, please.
This is your partial pan of buster.
Again, not a winter for photographic work.
It's at least as good as the astrologers pictures, though.
You described that there was a southwestern, northeast, boldery field in here.
We're looking almost down the sun.
I'm wondering, I can't tell in these photographs,
would you tell whether there are blocks over in there, and therefore,
your impression of this streak?
Well, I'll cross it.
It could not be salted by because you're looking down the sun.
Well, I might have been...
I didn't really mean to say southeast northwest.
The predominance of blocks and buster were oriented in this direction across that this way,
which is northeast southwest.
Yeah.
That's what you said.
And you're reconfirming that.
And reconfirming that.
Over in this area, you can see some of the blocks, but not nearly as many as here.
Now, we can barely see the bottom of buster, but the bottom of buster is covered with blocks that were up to two meters across,
and showed no orientation in any direction.
My feeling over here, due to the...
There were blocks in this area, but they were not as numerous as this pattern in here.
And so the blocks that you're on the side you were standing would have been derived primarily from that hole,
and not from the impacting material.
It has a appearance of a secondary from South Ray, and this kind of a photograph.
You're in a description of you.
You'd not go with that interpretation.
Well, if it is, it's the biggest one I've ever seen.
So that is a big crater.
From here to here, it was at least 50 meters.
At least, yeah.
And the size of those blocks and the depth of that crater in South Ray is six kilometers away.
That had to be one big block at a pound of it in there.
And I don't know whether you can even excavate something that large.
That's too large to be.
I don't really think it's a secondary person.
So I'm not feeling that looking at it was a primary because I couldn't conceive of how you'd get one from...
Of course it could have maybe been a secondary from one of those big craters way down South.
That's impossible to get you.
So that's either local bedrock or some of the flat or the thrown out material from Spook that we're seeing there in the floor in the walls.
Spook didn't look like that at all.
This was a lot fresher crater.
I think it's the over-sertify of this business.
Man, because it won't tell where that rascal came from.
Okay, I'd like to have slide nine, please.
This is North Ray Crater.
And there were arguments among you guys and arguments among ours as to whether we're seeing layering in there.
And I think the layering that you were talking about, John, is over in the right part where there's a dominance of blocks.
Is that a true statement?
Right there.
That's certainly one of the best candidates for...
It's just hard to imagine how the blocks would either all slump down there and end up at that spot or...
Yeah, slump down there and end up there.
You know, in our geology trips, we ran across a lot of contacts.
It was a great deal more subtle than that one right there.
That's why I picked it.
There's a better view of that as you get on further to the north, Bill.
I think it shows it a little bit deeper down, but there's certainly if there is any...
The right polarometric pan is a...
I should have had rather than the left.
People's in use when I needed to make the picture.
You know, up at going up Stone Mountain, there was one other crater that we were looking into.
We were driving up Stone Mountain where we could see what looked to be more like an halftrop than anything I've seen so far.
And it was the same kind of thing, only it wasn't broken up like that. It was just one solid piece.
I don't think there was any way we'd gotten up the hill to it.
We've got some photographs of that.
And it shows up on a 16-millimeter photography as we're driving up there.
And I can point it out to you, but it was about that...
That one-third of the way down from the top to the floor.
The same kind of...
But that's the only two places where I'd really call out what I would hazard to guess that that was out.
That was outcrop.
Off to the left there, you can see a vertical string of blocks right in the middle, a firewall, yeah.
And were there any visual observations you made on that that...
Well, again, I got to impression we had areas, quite areas, and dark areas.
And maybe the darkening was just because of the shadows caused by the rocks.
I got to feel those with the dark blocks like house rock, like Charlie does.
And I got to feel in their places where there were strings of white blocks too.
These rocks right here that are more buried and the regulars is deeper in this area
are all white matrix rocks around this way.
And really right out from this little block here is house rocks that's here,
and that is predominantly a black matrix drop.
And I counted nine radial block trails out of that crater.
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and there's a couple over here.
It gave you the pressure that you could take, track them from the floor all the way out over the rim,
at least as far as we could see.
The stink zones of blocks.
Good.
As a rascally, actual craters don't really exhibit the classical overturned flap that we've been looking at there.
More complicated than that when they all get shuffling around on themselves.
In here, as I said, we had impression that the regulars was more loosely consolidated
because of a footprint impression I had.
Down at South Ray, I had a correction down at house rock.
We already commented that we couldn't even get those palms to the shovel or the scoop in.
And around the rover, which was seeing right back out here, we had the same problem.
And you don't get the impression from here, but the slope going down to that block
where we'd have to go down to to get a picture of the bottom of that crater was not the kind of thing I'd want Charlie to be doing
without having that 100-foot line on us.
So we didn't get any pictures of the bottom of it.
Well, wait a little bit, we get the pan-camera stuff looking to the bottom, I guess.
No.
Or Ken's words on it.
As you can see, what's going down there, but I'd like to be able to get him back.
Yes. Me too.
As you can see here, the white matrix rocks had more filleted and appeared to be more covered with regular Earth than the larger rocks around it,
over here to the north where the black matrix rocks, the house rock was.
It had some filleting, but it was not nearly so pronounced as this area to the south.
Would the house rock TV pan do you have anything you'd want to point at them?
I've got that up there in the slide if you want to.
It's lousy, but it's...
I don't think so.
...to point things out.
Okay, so big one.
Can I get that out of the piece that the layer is looking at?
I'd like to point that below the surface rock.
I guess it's a quarter of the way down to the bottom.
But it's really hard to tell.
You know, that rascal is half a mile across.
So some of those rocks sitting in there must be almost as big as house rock.
It's really hard to say.
We didn't ever see the bottom.
It's about a quarter of the way down from where we could see.
I would imagine that the bottom of North Ray looks very much like a buster, the bottom of buster with bigger blocks.
Hopefully the pan camera will show that.
You didn't want to get close to that beauty.
Right in this area.
There was a bench down in here that you could probably have walked out on and seen the bottom.
But if you had fallen off of us, swallow your whole legs.
Sorry that you get to conflate controllers, Matt, because you didn't get back to the limon time.
So, you know, you can't get back to the limon time.
You can't get back to the limon time.