You're coming through loud and clear. Okay, I guess we got three bikes. One breed, one
bikes the way it is. You want it, Charles? No. Now, how are you? Bye, how are you?
Fine. Good. You're fine. Good. Yeah, we tried to go through this, you know, your
debrief last night. The printed one, you know, this all the stuff that you guys did on
tape, your tech debrief, to get those sort of, we try and not repeat, you know, only
amplify stuff. And so, we've tried to come up, you know, much time to do that, but I hope
we got most of that stuff. Okay. If you, if you think we're hitting some area that you
think, you know, is a conflict with that, well, yeah, tell us a little. All righty.
Change your around. And some of the things, now there were some things that you guys said
yesterday, you know, when I was in the project debrief, that probably bear on some of
these two. All righty. Yeah. Good morning, Bill. All right. Hey, Greg.
Oh, you know what's my, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know what's here. Yeah, I don't read it.
We don't have it. All the pictures are there. It's a lot better than what I had in this place.
Yeah, that's going to be hard to do. I heard what you did. Okay. She was on your,
what kind of format did you have in mind today? Okay. Questions and answers. Yeah. Questions
and answers. I guess we ought to, for the tape, identify this Dr. Barry and for the
medical debriefing and I'll try and ask most of the questions that people have. Some here
we'll try and hand them in that way. If they're not, will you identify yourself? And I think
they can identify you guys voices pretty well already on the tape. So there shouldn't be any problem
with the tape thing. They're not loud enough. It's a little down. Yeah. Mr. Bird. Where is he?
Can, can you get him a turn of my upside? Well, we can yell for a while here if it'll help
and then we can get him a turn of my upside. You just speak up loud. One, two, three, four, five,
five, four, three, two, one. Is that where it's coming from there?
God, Craig will get somebody in there. I think I'll come try again. One, two, three, four, five,
five, four, three, two, one. Test out. It's going to be better. It's going down.
Huh? I think we're not throwing on this one. Where are you ringing the lock and clear it back there?
Well, it's not coming in there though. They're not getting it in there. Okay. We can hear them
great, but they're not here as far as we're on. Yes, inside. The speaker, not the mic.
Here's to the max, the max, see if you can hear them vice versa. Oh, really?
Hey, that's a lot better. Okay. It's labeled wrong. They're just screwed up and there's too much.
Yeah. Yeah, we can hear you out here now. It's great. Okay. Good show.
Okay. I'm going to start it a little bit out of order here, but one of the things that sort of
forbades it, all those medical requirements. In the section 27, you had some comments about
the medical requirements. And I thought we ought to just give one question with you.
In explaining the medical requirements, we have one opportunity to do that with
with deep, of course, at the time that we're trying to get the document, the medical requirements
document published. The second, the only option for you, we really get to go over that with you,
was at the 30-day debriefing prior to the fright. Did you guys feel that you had an understanding
of what the requirements were? Because when I read this, it sounds like you did not. Is that true?
I think I read the forms, Chuck, and understood in general what you were after, at least the
number of sessions we had. I think it's a question of degree. Yeah. Okay. Well, one of the things
we tried is a very valid thing, like I could ask comments about, you know, you should substantiate
the requirements. No question about that. They should be clear. They should be clear to you,
in the sense that you ought to know that what you are doing is worthwhile and the stuff is used,
and it isn't wasted somewhere down the line. Somebody isn't just doing it for fun.
Yeah. And we try, that's something we try to iron out pretty hard in our own house.
And one of the things I'd like to do, is if we run, if you guys end up at the
some time before the end of the quarantine period here, and at some time we got to have that
data together by then, and then prior to the time that we're going to get in the out, if you've
got an hour or some time we might be able to go over with you and show you, here's what we saw
with you, and with the lab data and the whole bit, and say, because you know, it's very hard to get
back together again after you get out of here to do that sort of thing. Everybody says they'd like
to know what happened to them. We could do that to you and here, and tell you that, and here are
the samples that were used to do that, so you have some idea of understanding about how to end.
Would that be worthwhile to you? Yeah, the comma was made not from the point of view, a specific
complaint about our flight, but just, you think, continuing understanding between the two
directorates. We agree. I had time, because it's a kind of thing, well, just like without
assigning the experiments, unless the crew understands the reasons and agrees with it, you know,
the thing is you're going to be a successful experiment. Amen. So it wasn't the comma, it wasn't made
from a point of criticizing anything specifically about our protocol, at all, just to reiterate what
we did. Everybody ought to know, but doesn't know what we're thinking about. Yeah, good. And I think, Chuck,
also probably the last few weeks before flight is not the time to try to brief the crew on
the medical requirements. At that time, there are thoughts you're quite a bit on other things,
and perhaps it needs to come earlier than that. Ernie, that's a good, nothing good point.
I think each one of us is concerned with ourselves medically, or the medical,
but that's the physiology of flight, et cetera, et cetera. But the last few weeks,
you just can't get yourself cranked up to really think about those things, except for the things
that are going to happen to you, so you can be mentally prepared for it. Right.
I think I may have precipitated that comment. At least when we got that, Ernie, started that,
they're about to, and I guess it really wasn't a complaint, Chuck, as much as just a statement,
that it's a drag, you know, going through collecting urine for 24 hours, and so forth,
and that. And, you know, I just wanted to toss it in that you sure hope that it's worth
while, and I think it would be interesting to sit down and see how you, what you're really doing with
all that. Good. I think that's really needed because we're trying to do that right now with this,
kind of, and cruised to tell you, what we really know about what happens to man, what we know from
the Russian side of the thing is to what's happened aren't even there longer when
I put the thing together and say, here's what, here's what we don't know, and why we need to know it.
Well, I think, I think we understood, or I understood your, your need to
work out the total body water, but the actual mechanics of how that fit into a 24 hour urine collection
six times and, you know, blood drawing, and how that all fit in the picture, the theoretical picture
you write, painting for us. I never understood that very good. Okay. I very now, you know,
I think everybody stands on these things. Why don't, why don't we make a specific recommendation
to this point? You know, all the flakers have a training plan, which is set up about the time
of the flakers and pizzeria, and it includes all kinds of things, and the simulators, and
scientific regions, and everything else, and why is, why wouldn't the best way to do it, but actually,
the schedule of the time, four medical briefings early, in the training program.
Because, I think if you all, uh, kind of rusty, if you all feel the experiments worthwhile,
doing, you want to get your protocol settled earlier now in the game, so you have all the equipment
or whatever you need. We're ready. Yeah. That's right. We'll be, uh, satisfactory test.
So I would suggest that maybe sometime, uh, we schedule in the, in the crew training program early in the game.
And I should take, because one of those things, you've got to check off, like, systems, briefings,
everything else. And I should think that briefing should consist of, uh,
a bit of the theoretical thing you're trying to do. Right. Followed by the mechanics,
and the protocol. What that means to you. That's right. The mechanics of how you go about doing it,
and the number of punctures, and where you're going to do it, and how many of your incentives
will serve you. Great. Just so the guys understand. Great. Okay. We'll do. Great. That's great.
I'd like to go back and pick up one then on, on the, uh, exercise, uh, area. You, you mentioned
this in the debrief, and you mentioned it again in the, uh, uh, yesterday. But can you give me some
idea? Now you said you missed, uh, as, I remember the, the debriefing statements here, you
commented, you missed one day on the way out, and one day on the way back. And can you, can you,
can you say what you did in time, uh, what, what the exercise consisted of, what you did roughly
in time. I know you won't know the minute or second or anything, but it's roughly as you can.
And then, uh, what, if you have any idea that you try and judge what you did as far as did you
try and get a heart rate increase, or did you try and judge your, your exercise level in any way.
And this is particularly important for us in trying to separate out the effects that are different
between, uh, the two of you are on the surface versus two who is in, uh, in the spacecraft all the
time. So we want to keep that and want to get that straight if we can. Could you just sort of
brief the exercises because the way you did it, maybe each of you have to do it because you probably
did it differently. But what we were shooting for was about a 10 minute period per day,
exclusive about the two days of lunar service activity for two of us, and still is going to try to get,
by 10 minute period per day for, including those days. The, uh, method of exercise during the 10
minute period was to use this exercise gym device, which we have to operate that in such a fashion
that the old, what they call the big four, where you start out with your legs and, uh,
your feet and two loops in your hands controlling the friction device, from a cross position to a
full stretch out, and do that several times. Then hold the, uh, the, uh, fixed loops and use the
legs on the movable loops, and then hold the fixed loop with the toes and use the biceps.
That's the general pattern that we tried to follow, but we didn't make all of those time periods.
We missed the first day out because of, uh, but we didn't have a schedule for the first day out.
Well, it was in the flight plan, but we hadn't, uh, I don't think anybody's going to exercise the
first day anyway. Uh, in, in fact, it should never have been in the flight plan to exercise the first day.
Pretty hard to get that in in that first day. I don't see any problem with the docking
probes, so that it puts a lot of time. You don't really need it in that first day anyway.
You don't really need it in that first day. Well, uh, in retrospect, I think that it would probably
have been alleviated some of the sore back muscles that first day could go ahead and done it.
In my case, yeah. It was kind of like one of those things where they said, okay, you want to exercise,
put it in the flight plan. I said, yeah, we've got to have it in the flight plan. We won't do it. We're
going to put it as a parade before lunch every day before the middle of the day. That's how I get in there.
Okay. Didn't you say the extra gym or is it is it the extra genie or gym? I think the extra
gym is a trademark. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same thing. It's the friction one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
And, and so 10 minutes a day is what you had programmed for the thing. And did you have any,
yeah, many I did. Did you feel that you really got a, got a fair amount? Did you get up any increase
in breeding rate or high rate that you were aware of when you did it? Yeah. We didn't do it quantitatively
but some of you, uh, yeah. I always tried to stop a short of cracking a sweat. It's just not
desirable to get all sweaty in the spacecraft. And I felt like I was pulling it somewhere around
10, 15 minutes. I could feel a heart rate going up and the breathing going up, but I would never do
it to the point of sweat. Okay. And it's not a vigorous exercise. It's more of a, it's a tension
exercise. All right. I put, put enough load on it where it was a, a hard pull, but a slow pull.
Okay. It's due. Did years go about that same weight in for the whole time when you were
alive? No, I, I'd like to just summarize exercise. Uh, in my case, uh, I, uh, I probably didn't
exercise as much in retrospect as I would have if I were doing it again. Uh, for various and
standard reasons, uh, one is, you know, you, you don't feel a need for the exercise. You just got to
say, well, I'm going to, I'm going to go do this. And, uh, there were a couple of times that we got
out the, uh, you know, it says the exercise period. So we got out the exercise and
allinated. Have had it not be doing something or say, well, I'll put it over here and I'll get to
it in a minute. And then, uh, I don't on one occasion, uh, several hours later, I find, got
around to getting the, to getting it and, uh, and doing some exercise on it. The, uh, I'd say probably
five to ten minutes was the length of time. Uh, I, uh, I was strained pretty hard. I didn't work
up a sweat, but, you know, you use this thing. You can use it about any way you want. You can
drag it through the ropes. It's really designed to where you hold and do an isometric first and then
go right from the isometric into the isotonic and, and, and you get the whole, the whole smear.
So I'd hold, uh, hold pressure on the thing and, and strain against it. And, you know, you can
strain as little as hard as you want, but, uh, strain reasonably hard and, and then relax the
tension and, and pull it up. Uh, but I'm trying to think I'm sure that I missed, uh, one exercise
period on the way out completely that Alan made got in. I didn't know exercise at all the
lunar orbit, uh, that thinking of the, uh, extra gym was, uh, never even crossed my mind for those two
days. And then in preparation for, uh, for entry, I said, well, I'm really going to hit that on the
way home. As it turned out, I fairly got in, uh, the one, the one exercise, uh, a day, uh,
that, that we did on the way home. So I, I would say overall, uh, I probably, or, I'm sure I didn't
hit the, uh, extra gym as much as I probably should have. I don't know how, uh, from my point of view,
at least, how you, in a case like this, were you trying to do correlate, uh, the relationship of
the exercise that I did for you know, and it's benefits or like they're off with respect to the,
the, uh, surface grade, which was over 30 hours. I just think the workload, the basic workload,
they're along this and have a different, but that exercise thing down the noise level.
As competition now, the noise levels far as the two of us are concerned.
I think that's probably very right now. And I think the thing we want to know is, you know,
was stew trying to make up for it in some way with exercise in the space, because he obviously,
there's no way he could make up for what you were doing on the surface.
He was trying to, but he had a real busy flight point. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you could do it.
And this, this is what I wanted to find out was he, was he trying to do a lot more or something during that time?
No, I, uh, I wasn't, I, I think that'd be a difficult thing to try to do really. I, I don't know.
You're going to, uh, maybe with the longer period than in lunar orbit, uh,
C and P may not be quite as busy, uh, or maybe I suspect he probably will be.
I think it's going to be difficult to, uh, to get in my exercise there, but, uh, no, I wasn't.
It's going to be great to do. Yeah. So obvious that stew's, stew's greater interest
we're in on the spacecraft, and for example, B23s took a lot of time. That was the kind of,
this is the kind of thing I'm talking about, but if you're going to get the individuals to, uh,
try to exercise and respond to exercise, then you're going to have to get to a really
explaining benefits or the cruisers all along. Right. Is it really an individual thing?
That's right. And we haven't tried to set any numbers of times that you do anything or anything like that.
And so I think we need to really carefully look at, look at that as an area. Okay, uh,
Ed, while I'm, uh, and one that came up yesterday, when you guys were talking about, uh,
Mertle reminded me of the, and the, and the prompts to head in right with the, the urine,
kinking of the urine hose and so forth. Uh, how much time did you make a conscious effort, uh,
in, in your own particular case because it's important to try to chase down your status
post-flight here. Uh, uh, the time that you had the ensued urine device on, did, did you have it?
Maybe, well, it wasn't my hose, it was kinked. Right, right. It was out. Yeah.
I get her twice hours worth of that. Yeah, probably all the time. All the time.
We, uh, oh, yeah. We had it on, I guess we have to look back on the transcript,
or look back on the flight plan to know when we took it off the first time. We all ensued
it at the same time, which was about six, six hours, seven hours into the flight. All right.
Somewhere in there. And, uh, we put the UZTA zone, uh, PDI morning, and we took them off,
only when we got back to the spacecraft after talking. And it was all for those who curious,
only. And I never experienced any discomfort. I never had any problems whatsoever. That was
we discussed pre-flight, no symptoms of any sort. Great. Well, it looks like, you know,
we didn't have any, and you did well. How did you feel? Uh, that's another one we might just,
you know, I'm fluid intake. It sounds like you all thought the water was great. So you were,
you were drinking well, uh, did, did you, were you trying to force fluid? Were you trying to
consciously force fluid? Yeah, I think you now. Uh, in my case anyhow, I tried to drink, take
a drink out of the water, and about every time I went by it, I did find that I preferred the juices
to water. And surprisingly enough, as much as I did not care for the juices, pre-flight, particularly,
I didn't pray over anything. Uh, we were drinking a couple of juices per meal, a large portion of
the time. I was. And in addition, uh, taking the shots from the water down about every time I go by it.
I, I, I forced myself to drink the water, uh, not that it tasted bad or anything, but just,
just to keep the fluid intake up. And so I would, I would drink water, uh, you know, like it says,
every time you pass the water, you say, well, I think I'll try some of that. And one person
would take a drink of water and pass it around and would put it back up. Did, uh, as I understand,
though, you, you stay in the D-Rin, you, you thought you drank about half of the juices as they did.
I said, it's probably a good average. Uh, they, they, I know, I'd say probably say a third less.
A third less? Yeah. In juices. Yeah, you drank two juices. So, yeah, I drank two occasionally.
Toward the, toward the end, I was, I was drinking two more than, uh, I was because a lot of times,
you drink a cocoa and a juice and I bypassed the cocoa, uh, and I just drink a juice. So, I'd say
probably, and this is a wag, but I'd say a third less juice than they did. Well, I think I kind of
decided I was going to try to do everything I could to, uh, you end up in it as the check was
I could at the end of the mission, which included, uh, keeping the food intake and the food intake up
as well as the exercise. And, uh, this journey, what we tried to do. You did a great
long time. We had to try to get two juices per, per meal most of the time. Okay, there was a, uh,
question here if I did, uh, for you, particularly, did you eat more, do you feel why you were,
well, they were with you out and they were with you in the spacecraft. And when you were alone,
eating the drink better, I saw on your food thing. Well, I'll say, uh, excuse me, go ahead. I saw
on your food, uh, uh, comments here that, that you, you had difficulty, you know, the food preparation
thing you'd have preferred if you had some, some, like some canned things you could have
opened quickly and gotten to when you were alone that way. And I can surely understand that. I think
it's a good idea. Well, that's the way I did it. Uh, because we had them there. I guess it
didn't come out right because that's the way I did it in New York. I would say, uh, I'd say the
answer your question would be yes, uh, that, uh, that I ate more when, when they were in there.
And, but the idea of people being together is, is nothing in that. It's a time factor. Yeah.
Uh, during the coast, during the coast phase, you have more, uh, you have more time to,
you know, the word about eating. Uh, during that lunar orbit phase, I didn't have any time at all.
And, uh, to, you know, any extra time and particularly with the troubleshooting the
high con and so forth, uh, so, uh, I didn't have the inclination or why don't go to the trouble
of trying to mix up a, a meal as such and I didn't much like the, the going to all that trouble
anyway. So, uh, I opened up, you know, a can of that chicken salad, I think it was and I had that
for breakfast and, uh, in a wet pack and, you know, that's the type of food that you can really get
to in a hurry and eat. Right. So I wouldn't say overall that, uh, that probably ended up eating too much
last, but it was a little different rather than sitting down and mixing up a rehydratable
pack and so forth. So the total amount, you don't think was any different because you're there,
but it was just different kinds of food. It may have been a little last but, uh, do you,
do you personally feel now you know the weight losses involved here? You know, you know, you're,
you know, that they, uh, you got one pound each year and you got a 10 pound one and I heard you're
coming about the scale yesterday too. But, uh, with, do you have any personal reason why you think
there's that much difference in the weight loss I mean, is there any, do you know that you
personally tried to account for it other than the food intake, water intake or anything of that sort?
No, I just, I'm not sure that there's anything magic about, uh, about the zero G or the fly,
I would suspect I'd probably lost several pounds if I'd eaten that same, uh, same menu and sat right
here. Uh, I, uh, I probably think that I was, uh, turning pounds overweight when I went into the
flight, uh, some matter of fact, you know, I'm not a big eater and, uh, during most of my, uh, during most
of the time you come up on training, uh, I drink a can of sego and a can of eight juice for breakfast.
And then I eat a sandwich for lunch and, uh, you know, maybe drink, uh, two or three cans of beer
and eat a sandwich and even. And, you know, I, you know, I can go for days on a menu like that
and I don't know how many calories all that adds up to you, but, uh, you know, it's, it's not a really
high calorie, uh, diet. And I would say that that pretty much was my diet for three months prior to
going into quarantine was just about what I, uh, what I stated there. And then when we got in the
quarantine, or then I started eating, eating more breakfast and eating a bigger meal in the evening.
And, uh, so I think I probably, uh, it was sort of four pounds heavy going in, going into the flight.
And, uh, so I, uh, I think, uh, the weight loss may be overplayed a little bit because I think, uh,
had a few extra pounds and then plus, I don't think that, uh, maybe we picked the right, uh,
the right weight up on the, on the rolling scales. But, uh, that's needed here and there, you know.
Well, we can probably show you something about that from when we get your lab mature of
pulling together. I think we'd be able to give you a better handle on that as to whether,
you know, it really was something that had to do with the zero G state or not. We hope we'll be able
to do that. So we'll, we'll try. Well, like it is, they had the general comment, which I think
reflects the consensus here, the three of us that, that with respect to the food in general, the type of
food, the method by which it was packaged and so on. And, uh, and the degree to which we like,
it just like it was primarily a function of the, uh, level of activity in the flight plan.
But the business is going into the pantry and taking time to select foods and drinks and so on
and it's fine during the quiet periods because that things like, uh, like spoon, spoon packages are
good. The level of activity is not too high, but certainly the level of activity is high.
The wet packs and the cans and that's why I want to take time food. I think this is a general comment
that really reflects our consensus here. It was a time consuming part of the day to prepare meals.
Get them all, get them out of the food box, get them all laid out, cut all the tops off,
up and get all the water into them, get them the sausage and go buddy. Get the pill back in there
when you throw it back in. It's an effort. And, uh, you know, it's a lot easier to open up a can
and a wet pack and then, uh, then you, then you think it's a lot of trouble to mix up the juice.
But, uh, you know, that, and that way you got your meal and you're through and you're on your way.
Right. Okay. The cooking problem, of course, is, uh, is still a problem, which has been fairly, fairly
common, I guess. I think I think I've got plenty of time. You don't mind, but it's a very pleasant hour.
Yeah. It gets rid of that pain. Very effectively. But I would say in my case that watching these
guys eat, you know, they, they went right down the menu and, uh, so I thought, you know, I, uh,
I really, I really should do that. But, uh, I just didn't have an inclination to eat that meal.
I'd, uh, you know, even though you know on your own mind, you know, hey, you ought to do this.
You know, and, uh, you ought to keep yourself, you know, eat just as much as you possibly can.
I just couldn't get around to doing it. In fact, several times I'd mix the food up.
And then by the time I'd eat a couple of packages, you know, I just couldn't get to the,
to the third package. And so I'd put it back in the panther.
Let's do, uh, one of the things that's going to come out of there is somebody, you know,
reading the, the, the, uh, debriefing itself. The obvious question comes up, okay,
was your loss of it, your lack of appetite itself. Was it just plain lack of appetite?
Or did you really have any, any discomfort as far as the gut was concerned at all?
Anything that, that you've felt was pathological in your loss of appetite due to the environment or anything?
No, no. I don't think there's anything at all. I could say, I think it, it, it boils down to a lot of
just too much food, you know, you, you bundle up one of those meals. And, uh, there's just too much
there to eat. Were any of you ever thirsty? You gonna fly? Did you or dry?
You were dry. Yeah, I, I, you were dry, uh, quite a bit. You know, you'd have a sensation of
dryness and you'd want, and water, you know, juice would make you want some water. Yeah.
Did you, while we're at it, we might just wipe out the water. Did you guys drink the water in your
suits? Idiated. Yeah. Drank all of his. I just drank a lot of through, I think.
Out of three. Well, the first one I don't know how much of when I drank, I thought I didn't get the bag,
but apparently, uh, the wall to the bag got around the drink tube and I didn't get it all out because
it drained down around my neck during the sleep period. Okay. I had a leaky one also one time to go.
Okay. Did you fill them up again and when you went out second, you know, and you drank about,
you think you drank about 30 years, both times? I say, uh, I didn't really stop at three two. Yeah.
Yeah. I drank all of mine in the second EVA, uh, and I can't remember whether I drank it all or not.
If I didn't, there may be something still in it. Okay. All right. Hey, one of the comments on,
while we're on there eating, uh, far from here, uh, we ran completely out of these, uh, bite-sized,
uh, packages, you know, and to me, that was the best, the best thing we had, you, these little,
you know, turkey sandwiches, cheese sandwiches, and, uh, and that sort of thing because that was a
no sweat operation. You just clip that off and I can't adjust and you could go at it. So I really
liked those and, uh, I ate all those generally that could get my hands on and, uh, we ran out of those.
Well, we ran out of both everything else. No, not really. I had all kinds of food.
If I may make a comment, the student of mine, uh, about, well, obviously, being able to have us, um,
this flight plan is really something that he worked on, developed for the flight. It's, it's a busy
flight plan. It's a full one. And it was my impression that he was more interested in
being sure that the flight plan was done properly than, uh, the needy. Oh, yeah.
I think that affected the, sure, the grade, which again gets back the level of activity versus the,
if you guys can get a little, for example, those drink bags, get a little diaphragm on the end.
Just stick over a needle to pump the water in that way and shake it up, pull the plug out and
rig it out the same needle. It would be a lot easier for those drinks.
I mean, for the, for the juices and things, you mean, all cutting. Yeah. So that you don't,
so you don't end up having to sort of be, you got to drink the whole damn thing once you get it down.
You see, you got to drink back and you got a little moral, uh, thing. It's all sucked in,
the plastic is all pulled down. So I had exactly right, first of all, you can't get out of the
nozzle without any relief. And you get it all down and you got to go cut the other end.
And I was just thinking, maybe it might be an easier way to put a diaphragm to put it on the other
end. Well, you could stick over a hypodermic type of thing and get the water in that way.
Might be a little bit quicker way to put it. Okay. Anything you can do to make it easier is
going to help increase the consumption. Right. Particularly during busy time periods.
Okay. But, uh, could we get you, uh, and this is going to involve just really, uh,
Alan and, uh, yeah, we, we'd like to have you describe as well as, as you can,
the things that you did with your, uh, with your bio instrumentation harness is when, because
it's very hard for us to be sure exactly what happened. We don't have that stuff back yet.
We're going to set, we've got to, uh, got to develop a way in the trouble she did.
And as I, the thing that happened with yours out, just from our actions, not the words,
I mean, you love the actions, not the words. Yeah. Okay.
Well, you said in some of the words, too.
But what, from our point of view, what happened with your particular, uh, harness is
everything was fine when everybody left the, the, uh, MSOB. Okay. We got, when you got into the
spacecraft. Right after you got, apparently, when you were getting cinched down somehow,
uh, because we had about three minutes or so after you were in, uh, in the couch of good data
and you then we began to get erratic. They, they began to want, the baseline began to want
over the place. Uh, that continued to get worse and worse. And pretty soon it was going
just full scale, which was totally unreadable. So the question was, okay, it had, it was a question
about hatch closure at that point in time. We, uh, decided, right, right then, I said, well,
hell, we're going to go, we're going to go without that because I'm sure it's a sensor. And the
only way to get at it, anyway, if you, we asked you then to try and press on those things,
if that wouldn't do it, if that wouldn't recede it, uh, then the, the first option would be
when we got you actually in flight. Now, we don't know why, but it came back. It was gone still, uh,
when you went over Australia, as you came back up on the states magically, there we had data.
And we went back to the MSOB from the firing room to catch that pass. And there you were,
that was beautiful, just as if nothing had ever happened. And you hadn't done a damn thing,
because then we asked them, you know, as you know, now, uh, as we understand, when you looked at
that sensor, then, that you did have some material that had leaked out from underneath it. And you,
and we understand that you replaced that, so you cleaned up and replaced that sensor, is that right?
We didn't replace the sensor, no. Okay, just to clear it off, refill it, put a new sticky back on it
and then put it back on. Yeah, okay. That was the second day of the flight. Yeah, the second day.
Right. Yeah. That was the first time that we really, and that we asked you to do that,
then because we thought we'd get it out of the way before you got into it. Okay.
And then you had another, also, changed the adapter.
You see, it'd be a G adapter, because then one time on the flight, they said my comm was very good.
Yeah, your comm was terrible, right? Yeah, a spare adapter, and so it changed that. I'm glad you learned
that wasn't, I don't know, but that was pretty early, too. I think it was the first day, right?
Yeah, I think it was the first day.
And all that was the Lord. That was okay, ready to do the launch problem because, of course,
no. No, no. And we had it. We had a, uh, respiration on you. You can see respiration, but we didn't have to,
that's good. Yeah, yeah, but we didn't have an ECG. Yeah, we're really sure we can make that night good.
Hey, how can you correlate the reappearance of your ECG signal with any, uh,
flight activity that you might have been doing it?
I sure can't. This is modified about that. You were, I tried to press it through a suit or anything.
It happened. I can't feel anything too soon.
Well, you were free then. No, you had your helmet gloves off.
It was one hour and 30 minutes G-T-O, the, kind of, everything else.
How was the bus arrived at that time? We were moving around with the bus insertion checklist,
and there's a movement in the couch like diving and getting some things and pulling on,
and still that sort of stuff. It's probably, it just got to be that you were probably just,
it was in the sentient down in the, in the couch that it probably loosened that,
the enter that sensor somehow a little bit. And, uh, I don't know why.
Or put a crepe in a lead or, yeah, brought it to contact with the something else.
Yeah. Because it sure came back fine after that.
Okay, then the second time, what, what else did you have with, with yours now?
From your, what else did you do to the thing?
You know, the thing I noticed was about the, uh, next the last day,
that the thread coupling between the sensor line, sensor harness, and belt,
the, uh, little, that insertion belt on top of the signal condition.
Yeah, the, uh, strip of the threads. I could get it to hold a little bit,
and, uh, apparently the signal was fine, then it would slip off.
But it came back beautifully when you tell you.
But then what I considered at the end, I noticed that was loose, so,
it threads apparently stripped on the, probably a good crack down too hard.
Did, uh, did, did you, uh, routinely, uh, disconnect that connector at the signal
condition here for sleep or, for, uh, bowel movements, for bowel movements, and for, swapping down,
cleaning out process. In time, in time you pulled your clothes off to either change clothes,
so, uh, put on the LCD or use the blue bags, whatever we all want to do.
Okay, and then, uh, you didn't replace anything.
You didn't do it after, uh, recede any sensor after that.
That was the only other thing you had was the signal.
It was your entire intake of the sensor off.
Was that personal?
That car was correct because, I mean, take it out and you can see the secret to the
electrolyte.
Right. Same with the unit.
Okay.
How about yours in here?
The only thing that replaced was that one sensor.
Which one was it?
And it was, uh, the whole sensor?
I don't mean replace the sensor.
We pulled it off, cleaned it out, refilled it with electrolyte, put it back on.
It was the same.
Just the same outfit.
Okay.
You did not take the harness out of the kit and replace the whole thing.
Okay.
Because that's it.
We thought you had done that, and that's it.
You called and asked for that, but there wasn't time to do it.
So, we took...
Glad you could hear what we said when you guys said that.
We took the chance that the real problem was simply the sensor and the electrolyte,
and that's what it was.
That's exactly where it was.
We couldn't affect the worst time in the standpoint of time.
Is that right?
We were just getting ready to go into the lab, you know,
and boy, everybody's all asking elbows and suits, and underwear, and gear,
and books, and everything all over the place.
I was sitting here hand dressed.
I didn't want to go any further until we got to go on it.
We couldn't get the high bend right up for you guys to look at it.
Right.
And so it was one new time left.
So, we changed that when I went ahead and dressed.
Yeah.
Do you know when you came up there, though, the, uh, the, uh, the data,
you gave us about two minutes, uh, when the high gain did lock on,
and we got two minutes of data, and it did still show the, uh,
the loose sensor.
Now, what did you, what did you do the second time?
Uh, did you, uh, you came up and asked us how the data looked,
and we said it looked poor yet, and we gave you no more of the
suiting to, uh, change our partners.
I don't recall exactly the sequence of events, uh,
when, when I called and asked for you to check it,
yeah, as far as I know, we did nothing after that,
except make sure everything was cinched down and went ahead and dressed.
Didn't, didn't you do something with the, with the fluid in there?
Yeah, but I'd already done it at that point.
We did the, I changed the electrolyte when I called and asked you guys to check it.
Uh, I didn't nothing after that except just make sure everything was secure.
Yeah, because you see the first time you called the data was poor,
and that was the basis for the call and change our partners,
because we said, well, wasn't that sensor, and we didn't have time to talk to you,
because LOS was coming up, so we said, go ahead and change out the whole thing,
but whatever you did subsequently corrected it, because it came back beautifully,
so we assumed you just changed out the horrors.
Let's think of a little hollywood.
Yeah, yeah.
So you know, as you mentioned it, you know, I just can't remember precisely when we changed it,
but I'm, but I'm thinking that it was already changed at that point.
Oh, okay.
Is it, uh, uh, it was just the lower, the strut, the strut, the same as the L.
I remember that change.
It was electrolyte that was replaced.
Yeah, whatever you had to take it off, by changing it off and playing it and putting it back,
just sticking it back.
Okay, and, and you think you did that before LOS?
Yeah, he probably did what we were thinking now happened probably,
took a while for it to see properly, and then when he came around it was good.
Well, his state, state good then, and then we were having trouble with yours going,
and you began to get this one rebase line on yours again before the, you know, after we got
into the limit, so there was a question in our minds about it.
Is there any way we could do it to, to get that better, you know, to make that better?
We were trying to find, trying to figure some way, could you reach around when you were in the suit?
Is there any way you could get at that thing if you took like, after the EVA,
if you ended up picking the helmet off?
Could you get down into the, into the suit here?
You really have to have the upper torso garment, the upper part of the torso garment,
clear the body in order to be able to feel that.
In order to be able to feel that way, you could definitely tell you know,
the other guy goes through the backs if we're around in front.
Then we tried that on the ground to see if you could do that, and that's pretty hard to do.
The most you can do is press on it.
After all that time of quarantine, that's pretty dangerous too.
Yeah, yeah.
Depends on where your hand is at, okay.
Forget the EVA, just keep pulling with my sensory.
You've got two hours to stop that.
Oh, okay.
The thing we got from the sleep, and I, which I think is fairly work hard with you,
if you have anything to add to that, we'd like you to.
But what we got out of it is that all of you pretty well never really had a solid long sleep period
that it was broken and it was things like a couple of hours at a time or something.
And I gather that the reasons for that vary.
You had some difficulty with wanting to feel some pressure in its case, I know.
And this is how I mentioned this too, and stew didn't like the couch.
And then you ended up in the limb, the thing was being the suits all the time,
and then the tilt of the limb to both those things probably had a lot to do with sleep activity.
Is there anything else that you can add to you feel that you were rested enough to do the task
even with the sleep that you had?
Yeah, but I think we're working on reserves, yeah, I did too.
Well, there were two days that we felt sloppy.
One was the second day out after the excitement of the launch and all that,
being becoming, becoming acclimated to the new environment.
So we felt like we weren't really clinging on to the second day out.
And the day after TDI, although we all apparently slept better after TDI, that night,
I guess it was probably the terms of continuous sleep was probably the best way to do it.
Still, the next day we felt like we were not really harmonized.
We got things done, but the little things were not being handled as neatly as we would like to see them.
So this is the only two days we felt that we weren't on top of the flight plan.
I think, Chuck, I feel that for no longer than we work for nine days,
that you can get along on a fairly small amount of sleep, and just your reserves,
and your discipline, and everything else makes you do the job properly.
But in my case, I felt very strongly that I was on reserves,
that physically I was going downhill.
It was of some concern to me that I wasn't getting enough sleep.
I knew I wasn't getting enough sleep.
And yet, I felt fairly wide awake and alert on most of the days, except two days I was talking about.
But sleeping to me was a very insecure experience.
And how do you mean, because of this wanting something,
wanting to feel like you, the best I could say, feel like you were in a bed,
wanting to feel suppression, or to be lying on something.
It was a pleasant experience to be in zero G during the daytime, I thought.
It wasn't quite some pleasant experience at night.
Well, that brings up the thing.
Did you feel, I'd get it from Al's comments in particular,
this business of using your legs and your feet to try and hang on to something,
which has been described by other guys, too, at some length.
Did you have a feeling that that was the cause of this muscle business in your back more than,
because you know, that's been described, and they've never been able to really put a hand on the
line they felt for the hand that they've had this sort of feeling that if they could just stretch
that real good, it'd be great.
You think it is due to the fact that you had, we're trying to rock on the summer.
Thank you, Jack.
Yeah, as soon as that's why I analyzed it after the first couple of days,
I think we discussed it in that fact, and so we started exercise,
and then deliberately take time to relax, not only during the sleep period,
but also try to adapt ourselves to a relaxed state during the awake periods
of the states or on the optics or in the tunnel or something.
And after the second day, it kind of went away.
Yeah, that small of the back problem was gone after a couple of days,
and in fact, I was kind of surprised that at that woke up that first morning,
and my back had bothered me during the night,
and I didn't realize that Alan Ed's head back was bothering at that time, too, you know,
and I said, you know, I really didn't get that much sleep,
but this sounds crazy as all hell, because I can lay on that big fine
king size bed at the house, and if I get a lot of sleep,
you know, if I lay there for, say, 10 or 11 hours,
why the small of my back bothers me, and I said to these guys,
I said, hey, this is crazy, I didn't sleep that much last night,
but my back feels just like I've got about a little hour sleep,
and they said, well, mine does, too, and then we got to talking about it.
And so, but it was there, and it was very conscious to me that first night.
In fact, I thought probably my back kept me going to sleep as much as the new environment,
rather than the zero G, because I was always conscious of my back bothering me.
Did you ever think about taking an aspirin or anything to do with that?
Did you ever take aspirin at all?
For them? For the eight?
I think until the time we discussed it, I was convinced that the reason I was
feeling bad in the back was just not you're in the age,
we're so damn long, you're not full.
I wondered if you wouldn't breathe back.
I did think that, and then after we started discussing it,
I said, well, that may not be the problem, or if so, that's just part of the problem.
Everybody's got it, and I agree without it,
it has something to do with the way you try to use your feet
to stabilize yourself.
And I found, I believe, although I couldn't see myself,
I believe that when I was relaxing in the space frequency of the G,
I was in a curved position,
and it felt good to throw the shoulders back and straighten out,
or to take the extra gem and get some tension on those back muscles.
You tend to assume it's sort of like a fetal position.
If you just totally relax, your legs will tend to float out,
and come up in a sort of a semi-seeds,
and your hands will tend to float out about my fist,
and your back tends to bend down,
so it tends to assume that kind of a position.
If you just let all your muscles go, so you may have any muscle pulled on.
Oh, I'd tell you that one of the good things for that back too is just exactly that position.
Just get yourself up like this, and I know that first night,
when my back was bothering me, I tried to sleep a good bit.
I'd reach down and grab a hold of my booties,
and I would lay there like that with pulling some pressure on my legs,
and it would really help that smaller your back.
Yeah, I found both things either straightening out,
to put some tension on the back muscles,
or as Stu says, double on out every now and pull the other way.
How about when you got back onto the area now,
and you got into a bed then for the first time back on the 1G environment?
Did you have any feeling, did you have the feeling that you were real heavy,
that you were sinking into the bed?
Did you have that when you were on a table or anything,
on an x-ray table or anything, and that's when none of you experienced that.
How about way to close?
Did you have a way to close?
Pants were too heavy, or they were falling or anything like that when you first got back.
Another thing I can remember about laying down on the bunk was it was a good relief
to be able to lay on your stomach.
You know, I generally, I don't know which way I sleep most,
back or stomach or what, but you know,
you always had to impression no matter in what position you are in the spacecraft,
you're on your back.
So, I remember thinking of that, the first thing I laid down in the bunk was I stressed out
on my back, and I thought, gee, I've been in this way for nine days.
I think I'll turn over.
So I rolled over on my stomach.
It felt pretty good.
Did any of you have any dreams at all?
Did you ever dream and find it on?
I did, but I couldn't for the life of it.
Wow, that doesn't matter.
Yeah, I had dreams.
But you did have dream activity at least, wasn't it?
Yeah, it's everything.
Yeah, I think of that heavy feeling just like that.
The other time I noticed it was after we had landed,
we were still in the spacecraft.
We hadn't strapped in the spacecraft for probably around a little bit, not too much.
Got down the LAB right away in the first couple of steps.
Combination of the rocking spacecraft and being in one gig,
for perhaps three seconds, no more than that, certainly.
That was my experience.
Yeah, the start of doing some deep deep ends right away
for maybe 10 to 12 of those babies.
And I was right back home again and continued to feel that way.
No muscle sores, no.
Did you, this feeling that you experienced when you first went down the LAB
was at, was that all over?
Was that just having us in the legs?
Or did you just feel heavy all over for you?
It's just heavy all over.
Just all over.
How about when you, when you first got some G on reentry,
did you have a sensation?
Do you have a lot more G than you really ran a string?
I don't remember anything over 2G, was that supposed to?
These two guys were, you know that.
You like them?
No, everybody else is done?
No, I think you become very sensitive to
G, like even, even Ollie, John, in the spacecraft, you know, or
well that'd be, guess on time, you'd really feel a G would be
the only, as well as the SPS engine, of course, you know it.
But on reentry, certainly, you know, as you're going through 1G,
it certainly doesn't seem like 1G.
It's, you're sensitive to the G.
So he said, I wasn't quite as busy during that initial
period as they were.
I didn't have cracking tasks to keep me occupied.
I probably felt it more, or it was 5-7 more than they were,
and it felt to me like one hell of a load.
In particular, my one task was to be watching the time.
I couldn't get my arm up to see the watches,
until I had to repeat G let off.
And I'm about 4 or 5G, I could pull my arm up and take a look at it again.
And I had the same sensation that I did.
Right after I got out of the couch, I felt very, very heavy.
And then with just a little bit of motion, it seemed to go away.
And I'd say it kind of described a very sharp rise,
the return normal, the very sharp rise and then an asymptotic to 1G,
because I still stumbled a couple of times getting out of the helicopter.
But I felt fine, except I just didn't have the sureness of footing that I would like to have.
And that didn't last as far as footing, you know,
that's a interesting thing that the Russians had after their 18 day by the answer.
Mobility problems that lasted for days.
And you didn't have, we've never had anything of that.
We've always had some initial footing problem,
you know, just getting used to being back in the 1G environment.
And then you're on a shift, too, which isn't moving around.
Just didn't last for any of you for longer than a few minutes.
Really getting out of town.
You never felt like head at all.
No, neither died like head at all.
How about putting your feet in the right place?
Did you feel like when you were walking,
did you're walking normally on the,
that your steps were normal and everything?
You didn't have to worry about where your feet were.
No, I think that up to the point we got in the MQF,
I felt that that took a little care to make sure my foot was going for it
was supposed to be going.
But it wasn't out of the ordinary,
you know, really severe anything.
No.
It seemed to be improving very rapidly from a very heavy state
for the first 30 to 45 seconds after I got out of the couch
to within an hour or so after I was in the MQF,
the footing was very short.
But I do remember stumbling once going to the MQF from the helicopter
and I didn't see anything stumbling over.
It just, that stumbling.
You know, I think how you do that right now though,
if you're going to walk out of that door with a television camera
and you're going to walk up to the front steps,
you'd be more conscious of your footing.
You'd be more conscious of your footing,
whether or not you'd been in zero G or not.
Sure, if you're carrying a load,
you're going to look very carefully.
Where are you saying you want to get knocked down?
Yeah, and you in particular know that, you know,
you've just come back from a flight
and people are going to be watching how you're walking
and all of this stuff.
So, you know, it's in your mind,
and you know, you've got to walk this 30 feet to the MQF.
So just naturally, you're more conscious of where you're going to put you.
Well, I may have psyched myself in the stumbling for that reason,
but nevertheless I did stumble.
That's better than the fact that I was conscious of the fact
that TV cameras were on.
Did you notice any distortion of your facial features at all?
Did you, when you look at the TV, the Infight TV,
as we watched you, you know, when inside of a spacecraft,
you get the impression that your faces are not like they are now,
that they're much rounder, that that's a thing you see on the TV.
Is that true?
Is that, did you feel that when you were looking at each other?
I observed that when I saw a picture of us taking from that TV,
and I didn't think anything about it until you mentioned it.
It looks quite around.
You look much different than you do now.
It takes it very rounded,
but you weren't aware of that looking at each other.
Al Vain has made a comment of that in the 12 report
that actually got indoor, but he looked around
and everybody looked 20 pounds heavier,
and I remember that.
I looked at these guys, and they looked just as bad then as they did now.
I remember that comment from Al Vain's report,
and I really didn't notice it.
They were, the 12 crew, I guess,
been the one that was the most impressed with that of anybody,
and they know that they felt even that they had redness of the face
for several hours after they first achieved orbit.
Well, it's a general feeling of fullness, I guess.
But I mean, just to look at a person and see his face puffed up,
I didn't notice that at all.
Maybe it was just life about observation.
But, yeah.
I remember for the first five hours,
when we were too busy doing other things.
That's very good.
Did you have any sensation that in the first 24 hours in flight
that you urinated more than you normally would,
then you did the rest of the flight time?
That's a hard thing to remember,
but do you have any idea that you didn't know?
When I was at first without at all,
I never used my U-C-T-A.
That first one was a walker, I know that.
Of course, you get a lot of excitement to make it a walker anyway,
so it's hard.
Now, no real...
No real one way or the other on that, is it?
Okay.
Was the, can you come in on the work that you did,
EVA out on the lunar surface as far as what you,
you felt, based on versus your ground training.
You think it was harder, easier, about the same.
And secondly, as a second question to that,
did either of you feel really physically tired
to the point that you knew that you were really tired
during the EVA?
Is even going out and coming.
I felt, of course, it was an order of begging
through the easier than one thing training.
Just no comparison at all as we expected it to be.
And as far as being tired, I think I had already made up my mind
that I did not want to sweat in on the move
that I was going to keep the water up,
and I was going to keep resting enough
so that I didn't sweat for consumables and for fatigue purposes.
So I never really felt tired.
I did feel occasionally that I was approaching the point
where I'd have to have more cooling or take a break.
But it wasn't because of a tired feeling.
It was the desire to program and play in consumables
the way we wanted to.
And not behind them.
So I felt in my mind that I was stopping
sure to the point of fatigue as a direct plan
of not wanting to use up consumables.
How am I EVA?
Well, it's kind of hard to quite briefly
like stuff with flexing.
First of all, it's not using the LCG and the brake flexing.
You're lifting one essentially one G.
Yeah.
These are the equipment around some of them.
So it's pretty hard to get quite the two of them on
as to whether it was harder or easier
and even with like one of the standpoints of total workup.
But certainly, the standpoint of ease and mobility
so on as Ed says, it's a lot easier to get around
and I think you travel off faster or easier
on the lowly surface because the general comment is far off.
EVA 1, I did not feel uncomfortable at any time at all.
EVA 2, I think the fact that I was aware of the workload
was manifested primarily in the respiration rate
as opposed to EVLs.
I didn't feel as though the body heat was going up too much.
The deep body was going up too much.
I think this is primarily because of the circulating fluid.
The LCG and I was not aware of any preface from the sweating
just a little thing to change it
of sweating, of blushing, what are you going to call it.
It's when I went to the medium floor on the water.
So I think in question, I really were
if I increase in heart rate, the energy
specifically stopped the measure somehow.
So I think to me the thing was most obvious about
the increased workload was the respiration rate.
And the times I think we suggested to come in
to steepest grade of the period that we stopped and take a rest.
And if you also suggest that.
Right.
But the standpoint of being tied to the degree
where we didn't want to press on after short rest of the period
and know how to feel at any time until after the two days
was over and we were back in the command
and it really felt like I was behind the helicopter
as far as the total workload.
Well, we'll try and give you some firm feeling
for what happened with your EVAs when we do this later.
You know, we can show you actually what you know,
you did have some times where you both got heart rates
that were up to 150 or you, and this is why we felt
and your respiratory rates were very audible
and we didn't have a respiration trace on you at that time as you know.
But you did have very audible respiratory rates
and it was obviously you were increasing those.
And now I think you begin to store.
I think you, the thing is you kept yours on men for a long time
and then when you did turn up to medium flow
you just left it there a short period of time
and it didn't, it didn't kick your rate down as much
because you still were maintaining some of that heat in there now.
It wasn't enough to make you sweat apparently.
And then when you started doing that turning it on a little bit longer
each time you just, it just settled right back down
you didn't have any trouble with it at all.
But both of you came down very well.
When you would rest your rates dropped down
and that's contrary to what happened on 12
where they didn't drop down when they rested
and yours, yours did very well.
They just dropped, they come right on down
as soon as you stopped doing that activity.
So that's it.
You have a feeling that you could have, but
you have a feeling any recommendation
about extending EVAs now.
I mean, do you feel it would be possible
with proper, proper consumables?
Of course that, that you could,
that it's physically possible to do that.
I sure do.
And the thing that bothered me was worrying about consumables.
I'm knowing that we were getting a higher metabolic load,
the higher heart rate, more oxygen consumption,
going out to home crater
and that I was spending more time on
between minimum and intermediate cooling
because we were rushing deliberately,
rushing to kind of make up time.
I started worrying about consumables
and especially in the water in the oxygen.
And I felt I was a limiting factor.
I didn't feel that I was a limiting factor.
Just the oxygen in the water I was consuming
were bothering me.
Well, we tried to give you the word that,
you know, that you were pretty fat,
consumables really at the time.
We thought you were trying to save consumables
but we did, we weren't.
Yeah, and it would understandably so.
And so we wanted you to know that you had enough
and you could go to medium flow
without really getting yourself in a hole
with the thing you wouldn't even know.
And after you did that,
I spent considerably more time on
between minimum and intermediate cooling.
Yeah, let's go it down.
Yeah, you both did.
It's different.
I don't think that the comment is
just like the comment about how the workbook
was expecting to the two-day period.
I wouldn't want to see a crew ever plan
to do any more than we did most of them.
For us, I think that's a much heavier workbook
than anybody ought to do.
And certainly, if you're going to go off
from along the crazy VBA,
you've got to allow along the crazy rest.
And make sure somehow that they get the rest.
Yeah, just allowing the time
wasn't necessarily a sure rest.
Well, tell me.
If you had, you know, in the NLM,
I gather one of the things that you think would help,
of course, would be getting out of suit.
That certainly would help.
If you could get out of suit in the LEM,
no question about that.
If you had something for sleep, would you take it?
Would you guys have taken the LEM
if you had some for sleep in things?
I don't think so, because I don't think I don't
want to advise you.
I don't take that kind of medication here in the ground.
It's an individual thing,
and quite obviously, you know, it just depends on you.
If you had any things that's possibly
in space, you can't really run environments
probably in a way, everybody would run.
So if you have people who do that in the ground,
you can help them.
I prefer to see us using more natural means
of getting the sleep, as opposed to an artificial.
You'd like to ask something to sleep off, please.
Yeah.
Back to that.
I think the suit's a big thing,
as far as I was concerned.
Yeah.
And keep on coming up.
You could roll around.
You know, even you could roll around in the hammock
and then the hammock ring would get back to the neck.
Yeah.
It's comfortable.
There was one thing to talk about the fatigue.
The only thing that I felt fatigue, any muscles I felt,
the tape was a darn hand muscle on the right hand,
because of the sit-out of that blood.
Because you were fighting that blood?
Yeah.
And working the cord tubes, getting unscrewing the cord tubes,
what if I couldn't get by myself,
getting the caps off of it.
That was very fatiging, and at R&D about it.
How about when you're carrying a barbell out there,
you're getting this thing.
You said you had to do it well.
Well, that was tiring.
It just because it's so cumbersome
that it was flopping all around.
But I eventually put it across my arms like that,
and just aside from the workload of carrying it out,
there's no problem.
It was heavy.
Was the weight different, seemed different,
because you commented at the time,
and it looked like you were having trouble
getting out there with, I think,
was it the weight of it?
Or was it just the fact that it was vibrating?
And it was sort of like the fatigue of it.
It was mostly the vibration of it, just the flopping of it.
Flopping of it.
However, I think that it was heavier than I expected
from the 1-6G mockup.
But we had never carried it that far in training,
and I think we made that recommendation.
At least once the guys on a carry it the whole way.
But it was primarily the flopping of those weights
on the end that were giving trouble.
Let's get the idea that, on this bowel movement thing,
the preps and so forth, you had a good comment in there
that that went fairly well.
You all did the same thing.
We knew pre-flight anyway.
How did it work out, though?
I think you remember, can you just tell us each one how you went?
I get rid of it, but almost at the end,
without having one, according to a comment.
Where did you go?
Where did you do it?
Yeah.
I went to the morning of the 8th day.
To the morning of the 8th day, it was the first one.
And that's the only one I assume.
I didn't plan it that way.
What I wanted to do was to have one bowel movement
before we went to the surface.
So that would take care of that period of time.
And I went around with a bag on my family for about 12 hours.
Hopefully I can do something and never do it.
And at one point, I even wished that we had a lecture
and it would be important to help me do that.
I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not,
but it sure seemed like it at the time.
And I was really concerned that I need
to have a bowel movement while we're on the surface.
And I got through that period, figured, well,
we got it made.
Be good to get back to the main module and use them.
Bag, and I still couldn't.
It was the late day.
And that was the one for it.
Did you ever get any clamps or anything with them?
No, I never had any.
You got that service at all, and it's fine.
I wasn't uncomfortable.
I didn't even have a feeling of fullness.
How about you, Al?
How'd your cycle go?
I had one and a half bags.
And no problem, Mr. Mead, there were normal consistency
in sort of this part.
That's really uncivilized.
That I agree with you.
We've got to fight better, but the whole hygiene thing
and this thing is so archaic and unbelievable.
And we just got to do better in that if we're
going to keep people in space.
Actually, I didn't feel civilized, you know?
Yeah, I really felt uncivilized during that whole process.
The whole mess, yeah, as a bee.
And the ability to clean up afterwards
and affect as the ability to maintain personal hygiene
throughout the flight is only what we need better.
Stu, how about you?
I went to 80 hours, was the first one.
I remember distinctly because I said,
between 80 and 81 hours approaching L.O.I.
while I'm going to do it.
And which pleasantly surprised me, too,
we're on the gory subject because pre-flight
I anticipated that I might have to use the bag
more than that because in my normal course of events,
it's very common for me to hit the head at least twice a day.
And so I was pleasantly surprised that I got to 80 hours.
And then I had one other one and it was after TDI.
I guess the next day after TDI and I don't remember
what time frame it was.
Yeah, I guess it was.
It was the day after TDI.
And, okay, I don't remember the GT right now.
I can't even associate with anything
except these guys and their guests,
I don't know what else is going on at that time.
Yeah, these guys.
Okay.
When did you first start to use the nose drugs?
How far into that?
Do you remember what date?
Third day with it?
Three, isn't it?
Third day.
And, do you feel that that was a,
I'm a little bit confused about your description,
you're describing this fullness.
And still, do you feel that this was a thing
that was associated with this fullness
that was due to the weightlessness
or do you think it was an oxygen effect?
Just due to the drying, so forth.
I never felt that dry.
And at the time, I thought it could have been either or both.
And so, I just treated it simply mathematically
with a couple of, about one drop in each nostril
that was completely effective for the next 10, 12 hours.
Well, you could hear it.
This is a fairly routine.
You hear this in the guy's voices,
and you know what they're doing.
You know, you hear this full feeling that they have.
Sometimes they get a little bit of horse
sensation with it too.
And it comes and goes in that.
You describe it, I thought very well yesterday.
Sometimes in the mornings it would be,
you wake up and be better in the morning.
You know what, Jack?
I don't know.
This is kind of a...
You've been built in maybe the whole head sensation
related to a re-testing of the old curry of asthma system
and therefore, if you could relax a little bit
in the evening, you know, and help it.
This is my theory.
Exactly.
We kind of wished it that way.
It's just a general feeling.
Nothing to substantiate it, but the car is in it.
And I think as far as the nostrops are concerned,
it helped with the mucus,
but it didn't help the overall fullness.
Did they work all right?
I know we got a special one, Stu.
But did they work all right in a minute?
Did the...
Just like I'm sure of that, but what I said is clear out there.
It made it clear out there.
Yeah.
And Stu, what about now?
Did you just give yourself too big a slug?
Does that what happened to it or...?
I think I probably did, Chuck.
I'm sure that's what happened.
You know, I said, well, I hadn't used any up to land,
but on entry, you know, I think I'll just use
some of these beauties.
And I think I hit, gave me two big of dose
in the right nostril here, because who am I?
I started watering, and I could feel it
with my sonuses and everything else.
And then, but it lasted maybe an hour.
And by the time, I guess I probably did that
a couple of three hours prior to entry.
And an hour later, you know, I think most of the symptoms
have gone away, that are you getting closer to entry
and you stop worrying about it.
But, yeah, I did, I think I overdid it.
And I just, you know, I hardly ever take any nose drop
training, and maybe I just get too much in there.
And it's probably pretty powerful stuff.
It is powerful.
I know if I, in 1G or here, if I take more than a couple
of drops of Acrid, if I use drops instead of spray,
I get the same effect.
Yeah, it's not.
It's burning in a real dry situation.
And it wasn't a lack of breathing or not
trying it before flying or anything like that.
I think I was just a little overzealous in the application.
Well, you know, it drops a good, give it four.
Yeah, what the hell?
Did you feel it?
You got any, you get an attack of cardio with that?
You get a real increase in R-Rate with that?
Oh, I haven't had the foggest idea.
You didn't feel it anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah, I've had to, you all had to, you all had to,
talk to a lot more adrenaline.
He got mad at us for suggesting it.
Did you use the gun?
Yeah.
Yeah, I was digged off at the suggestion.
Did you all had some evidence in your ears
on the first exam when Bill saw you
of having some bubbles in there?
And did you have any sensation during reentry
that you were having a trouble clearing your ears
any of you?
You know what I'm saying?
I was probably surprising to me.
I was looking forward to it, surprisingly.
Everybody had this, no problem, Bill.
I could feel the pressure change, but,
no, I could hear them pop.
But you know, I could do that too
on my suit integrity check.
I could feel the pressure, you know,
and you just sort of pop it.
And I may come in before I forget
about this voice sounding full.
You know, I noticed that you'll do that a lot
if you, I think maybe it's because the atmosphere is dry,
but if you're doing a lot of talking
and then you come on and I would notice myself sounding,
sounding full, and I say, gee, I'm sounding like that.
And my head wasn't a constantly full at all,
but I could tell in my voice that I was sounding
here and in your voice.
If you've been doing a lot of talking.
Right.
That's true.
If you end up just talking on that,
like if you end up here, like in a session yesterday
where you talk a lot, you may even have that kind of thing.
If you just talk a lot during the day, you can have it.
We don't have too much of us to do it here, Charles.
Yeah.
Now we're back with that.
Hey, Chuck, come in on those asses.
We're looking for somebody kind of glad.
Who is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Come in on the afterbubble.
The pressure gets to them.
And they separate into the Gillian bubbles.
Not a most of this very bubbly and filled with air.
And so if you take a cap off, it comes out.
It starts leaking.
It's a little bit of salelage, but yeah.
Okay.
And it's kind of difficult to control that stuff.
That was the first time you opened a bottle, right?
Always, always.
Every time you open it.
Yeah.
Okay, so what technique did you use for finding those drops?
How did you put them in?
Very gentle squeeze trying to get just one drop.
And they're telling about it.
Just put the drop drop in there.
Put it in there and hose it.
Just like we told it to.
Good boy, right?
What did you take those PRDs down in your suits?
You never believe it, Charles.
We had zipper pockets.
You're kidding, huh?
It's unbelievable.
They were there.
We pulled out those coveralls and they were zippers on it.
First time we've seen zippers in the old training site.
They're not in the training suits.
They're just on the plates.
Just on the plate.
Well, how about that?
Okay.
We had requested it way, way back and forgotten about the way we made the official request.
And it was already in the mail and nobody who put it.
And now the training devices were that way.
But lo and behold, all out of the package that came with them.
That's great.
They were great too.
Okay.
I understand where that is.
When you remove your PGA's now, is there a point of the checklist where we shouldn't include the removal of the PRDs back into your flight coveralls or is that not there?
It's already says take all the items out of here.
Oh, it does.
That happens to be one that's by itself.
I see.
If you forget that extra pocket's there, you forget it.
Now, it's listed in there when we take the suits off the first day.
I guess, you know, and then when you bring the suits back over from the land wide, you know, a pretty rough timeline that it wouldn't, I don't know if it's being good to put that in your timeline book or not, because that time your main purpose is to just get the suits and get them stuff.
And then you jerk them down and kind of zip them up in those banks pretty fast.
Right into the back.
Okay.
Probably wouldn't hurt, I guess, when we list the items, take all of the suits.
When we come back to the land, we just have PRDs in there, it's another item.
We have sunglasses and pencils, no risk of that.
That's what it is.
You said you use sunglasses.
You don't only want to get used to sunglasses.
Is that right?
I use prescription.
Correct.
Oh, okay.
When did you use the correct one?
A couple times when I had great small print in the flat one.
Just in the command module.
Yeah, with the held off all the time, I didn't use it.
No, I didn't.
How do you use it for time and time to see this?
Particularly in the LMS?
Yeah, it's I want to get a depth just below that length.
Yeah.
Did you have any feeling about that on the lunar surface?
How it that low, that the light levels were finer, some tree because of that?
Because that is a very typical thing.
That's an interesting thing.
The light levels were generally higher in the little module.
The thing that you don't simulate on the LMS is the difference between day and night.
How about out on the surface when you were actually out on the surface and had your visor down?
Yeah.
Did those light levels body at all?
Did you feel that you were having any difficulties in that?
It's either the problems I have.
It's with reading small print.
It was close.
Yes, it was in the light levels below.
And I had the problem in the LMS.
A couple times when you see a mess in the LMS, I think I don't know how many times I broke them up.
On the bus.
Yes.
6 or 8 times.
We'll try to read down the damn cards.
It's the best only time I've ever seen you do something like that.
Yeah, but you know, the surface chuckets either start white, I mean, dazzling white or it's absolutely black.
It's black.
I don't think I said that's a great deal of do with that point.
Yeah, that's right.
I think you've covered most of that stuff about the vision on the surface, and so it's pretty well in there.
I think you've done that very well in the solar island.
We need to, if we have something that comes back up for that, we'll get the word to you.
But as far as I can tell from getting through all that so far, I think we've got most of that covered.
You know, I might point out to you if you want to pursue the visibility further for any sort of medical thing.
If you look at the photographs, it might have been in there exactly what we saw.
Is that right?
If you look across Sun, the visibility is great.
If you look up Sun, everything's layered out by the Sun.
If you look down Sun, all of the general Sun all rolling and subdued craters, they just disappear on it.
Yeah.
But across Sun, visibility is great.
The photographs are the same way.
You know, just real brief on it, same subject.
It's kind of hard to tell when you're looking at just negatives of these 70 millimeters.
But I was looking at some of the zero-phase pictures last night and how the targets would disappear at zero-phase.
It does it on the films.
Same way.
As it turned out, I'll have to see what the prints look like.
But my first impression is that I didn't see much more than what the camera did at zero-phase.
Which it's going to surprise me because I would have thought different.
But I don't take that as any sort of data until I've had a chance to really see a blown up print.
You know, I'm just looking at some negatives in here.
But that's my first impression.
I said that the eyeball can see more than the film can.
But with our particular film, I think there's a pretty good source point.
I'm not going to be about the same.
That's great.
Yeah, it's the same way that we have a bad eyeball set.
No, it was a good film.
That's a pretty rare thing.
Hey, on the sunglasses, I guess you got it.
His bars on him, nobody even broke the sunglasses out.
Right.
And you didn't really need it?
No.
Right.
Well, I think the only time we needed him was when there was sun shafting in.
But in PTC, just wait a couple of minutes, it's going to be gone.
Goes away.
Okay.
And there was a time at 196 hours where we lost your respiratory system, your CPN.
Did you notice whether it was the signal conditioner disconnected in or was there a sensor loose or anything?
No.
There was nothing different.
And you couldn't see anything obvious as to why?
No, I went down and went over the whole system.
We checked the sensors, checked the belt, checked the connection.
And we were getting too close to entry to really do it.
Yeah, no great deal of troubleshooting.
No, there was no point to do it then.
Okay, fine.
But we're going to check those things.
We never had a signal conditioner as such fail.
And that's one of the things that's sort of interesting to win the sensor problem.
And we want to be sure to check those signal conditioners out.
Okay.
I think we've got most of this mobility thing done in there.
I was talking about that bottom end belt.
Let me just say, I think my urine bike problem, the ACTA problem, is kind of related to that belt,
in that you know the ACTA is held by that plastic strap.
Right.
I think the problem in getting a hose length correct has to do with the fact that the ACTA
doesn't always end up in the same place.
You try to get it below the belt so that it doesn't get on top of it
and increase the dimension of your urine.
And I think in doing that, that probably will work a little more.
You know, or the gun down and have it for maybe in retrospect.
In some way, that thing could be fixed.
Yeah, probably.
I'm going to move up and down and therefore you can adjust the hose length.
Oh, better.
I wore mine differently.
I wore mine over the belt.
That may be the deal.
Well, I think it's a question of fixing the vertical height of that thing.
So you can't get the right length of the hose.
But the line was up and down.
I think when you reached in, you probably thought it was sagging down as it was out of being full of fluid.
You wanted it.
But also because I used to wear it below the belt and the other.
But his hose had a definite kink in it.
It came out of the fitting.
It just made a sharp kink.
And it was bent.
It's like you see a little bit.
Yeah.
Did you have, did you feel any real dryness of skin as such or dryness of your lips or your nose and all?
Did you ever have any sensation that way during that?
Not exceptionally for me.
I shouldn't have any obvious sensations, right?
I don't know.
The student did.
I noticed his lips were cracking about 4 to 5 days.
We got like TDIs.
But I don't know what you're going to do.
Yeah.
No, I didn't feel dry.
In fact, I know cracking in here too.
But no.
I didn't feel any dryness particularly though.
Did they talk to you about the field chamois and wanted to tack on the white flesh thing on the end of this thing?
Yeah.
Why don't you tell me to come on in and let me get that out of the way then?
Hey, Chuck, just real fast.
I know you've got to take the data and you're looking ahead to the longer flights.
I'm not trying to downplay it.
But this weight loss, you know, I think, in my case, I don't want it to be misconstrued.
You know, I was just sitting here thinking, you know, I weighed less after I feel tripped to Iceland
than I did after this flight too.
You know, a weight loss of me of five pounds is just, you know, comes and goes with no problem at all.
Well, that's why the body water things are going to be pretty important.
Yeah.
You know, is that really it?
You know, is it really a total body water loss?
I don't know.
That'll be it.
Yeah.
A real important part to hang on here.
That's why we'll go over that way so that it is clear.
We won't have a total body water or something, or an exercise of your food space.
So I have to quarantine now.
We'll be done with the data.
Those are data matters.
We're just doing data counting here.
Why can't we get it out?
I won't allow you that way.
We're just not quick.
Let's get it out.
I'll talk with you later.
There is a scientist.
Let's go.
Yeah, there he is.
Phil, come out.
Hey, y'all want any coffee?
I've got a big pot right here.
Yeah, I'm coming over to get some right now.
I want to go.
Big suggested that we should tack on a few questions about light flashes.
The end is brief.
I hope you're going to have a moment to do that.
What we'd like to do is to clarify some of the subjective impressions that you've got.
What you saw on the way of light flashes and also to clarify the conditions under which you saw.
I'm scared.
Can you stand back from the mic just a little bit?
That's a boom mic.
Phil, can you tell what you're saying right here?
He'll pick it up.
Okay.
You need to get really close to the mic.
You should be right from the mic.
Is there a way that the room could be there?
Is there room to be there?
Yeah.
In a while.
Okay.
The first question we got is the streaks that you saw with a very sharp phenomenon
or were they rather diffuse like fuzzy?
Once I saw it were very sharp.
There was no mistaking what it was.
It was a streaks.
So long.
Yes, the pain is weak.
It was very good.
Yeah, I think that's correct.
Both the single streaks and the double shots that could be very clear to me.
They were quite clear.
And I think I made the comment over the loop that most of my streaks appeared to be on them.
And for the first several days I got the impression that this direction was predominant.
Later on it appeared that I don't think I could get that good pattern.
But that was my first impression for the first couple of days.
The next question is was there any apparent direction of propagation?
And could you tell it was coming from one side to the other or was it just a flash?
Several times you didn't say from the left to the right or something like that.
Tried to correlate it, but in my case I couldn't really correlate a pattern out of it.
Yeah, I would think that the time period which we tried to report them straight by street flash by flash was represented.
And it was my feeling that it was generally random during that time period
and therefore generally random throughout the time that we were noticing.
Now I meant could you detect that it was moving from one side to the other in general?
It was moving in an A specific flash.
Oh an A specific flash, yes.
But you could see it as a prevel from one side to the other.
You really had to try to report that way.
That's the way of propagation.
Because it happens, you have to be very fast, you know.
And that question kind of redundant then?
I don't believe you.
Was there some character to these flashes that had some aspect of direction?
Were they all the same rod shaped or were they have a tail on them?
Well, what I reported as a street was simply that.
Now maybe the way we determined the direction subconsciously was that it was a ball of light moving in a direction, leaving a tail.
But I don't, I can't say that for sure.
All I reported was a street and I had the impression of it moving from one direction to the other.
And I reported that direction and I can't clarify it much more than that.
What do you want to do?
You want to ask me a question.
We just denounce the lights.
I think they can see this in the dark room.
But just try it.
The idea is to try to see whether this is what you saw or similar to it.
I think you need to like that a bit.
Can you see anything?
Yeah, that's what it looked like, except it was traveling.
In other words, it started out and then definitely progressed across the field of view.
The direction of motion for the individual.
Was it that right?
Yeah, except you're not traveling.
It was traveling.
I know.
You started at a point in a street.
I never had seen two simultaneously either.
You had two streaks like that.
I never saw that.
At one time you saw a semicolon tube thing.
So what?
A semicolon tube thing.