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This medium has been declassified in compliance with applicable executive order, statutes, and regulations.

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I expect that the speaker will put out approximately this volume and I will now, as before, turn around slowly and address my words to the blackboard.

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This I am not doing, but straight into the blackboard, as if I were going to die.

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I am then going to turn around slowly again now to face the audience. I am separated from the microphone by a somewhat greater distance as if I were slightly leaning backwards.

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Right around the zero, that's the desirable weather. If, for example, we turn the game down, so you see it's just about wide open and I pick everything in the room up.

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Let's see how I jump from the end. Now let's see if we play it back. I can't hear you.

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There's a red thing already now.

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Yeah, there are a few things on the table.

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Why don't you say something?

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I'll need to start talking.

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What?

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I couldn't hear you.

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I was comparing about 1947. You're possibly familiar with them to a certain extent following the newspaper reports.

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The first ones were cited by Kenneth Arnold in June in 1947 out in Idaho.

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Now, I'll refer to them as these things because we have no idea what we're dealing with.

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The newspapers and radio play them up to a great degree at that time.

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And consequently, it introduced a little bit of probably a little bit of mass hysteria or something like that into the problem.

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They flared up for about, oh, spasmatically, for about two years and then the things were dying down to a certain extent.

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The Air Force took over this project soon after the first sighting because the public demanded an explanation of these objects.

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In August of 1949, the Air Force came out with a report, supposedly a final report on this, where they reached a few conclusions.

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Now, they had some specialists in certain fields working on this problem.

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And you might be interested in knowing who they were.

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There was a Dr. A. J. Hyne, an astronomer at Ohio State, Dr. G. Valley of the Scientific Advisory Board.

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A Dr. Fitz of the Aero-Medical, I believe he was a psychologist.

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A Rain Corporation, Air Weather Service, Cambridge Field Station, and the US Department of Commerce Weather Bureau.

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All those people took the reports, I believe they had about 300 reports at that time.

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They took the reports and read them over, came up with their conclusions.

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All their conclusions varied to a certain extent.

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They all agreed that they didn't know exactly what they were, however they were.

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Obviously, no direct threat to the United States, so they didn't pay too much more attention to them.

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The Air Force came up with several conclusions in that report.

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One of them was, it was a mile case of warhead, mass hysteria due to, when we might say, warners or just over.

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Some of them were due to psychopathical people, or not something like that, trying to create an excitment or get publicity, or do it pure hoaxes.

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And the other one was that they were due to misinterpretation of conventional objects.

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Well, since that time, several years has passed, we've been able to go back and review these conclusions a little bit.

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We've been able to drop out all except the misinterpretation of conventional objects.

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Going back, we have approximately 800 cases now on record.

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And only about 2% of those are actual hoaxes or psychopathological people who just don't know what they see.

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The misinterpretation of known objects is still, of course, a large factor.

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I mean, that could possibly account for all of them.

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However, it's a little bit doubtful.

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We've gone through these reports and come up with the fact that about 20% are very good reports offered by very reliable people,

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and there just absolutely no conclusions can be drawn.

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The mass hysteria factor has gone out because the newspapers haven't played this up for the last approximately three years.

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There's occasional flories, but nothing to get excited about.

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All in still reports continue to come in.

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We dropped this project in 1949 as it has a special project in doing this information as regular intelligence material since that time.

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We've decided on our last October.

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We decided that there was possibly enough material left to reopen this case.

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So we, the center appointed a permanent project engineer, which is the project engineer.

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And we reviewed all this stuff.

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We took all the cases that we had reworked and filed them all in a neat file so we could tell what we had.

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We went through and processed indexed all the material.

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So we could get an idea of the different factors that were involved in these reports.

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We came up with some results.

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I won't say they're outstanding results.

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We don't know what the results mean, but I'm lucky.

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I didn't realize you're going to have such a large audience here.

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We didn't bring any slides along.

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I don't know whether any unit back in the room see this print.

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I'll pass it around and you can get an idea.

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This is a plot of the sightings in the United States.

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This does not include the...

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We have sightings outside the United States, but we're not too worried about those at the present time.

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We're more interested in the United States.

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I'll explain this a little bit to you since you can't see it.

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We have certain areas in the United States where there are concentrations in Dayton and Columbus, Ohio, their concentrations.

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This is possible to do two things.

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One of them is the fact that the people in that area knew that all the activity in this project was taking place in that area

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and consequently they were doing a little bit more reporting.

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Another thing is that all the experimental flying was being done around right field.

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We still have a lot of trouble with that.

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People call it and say, I just saw a great big light board of 5,000 miles an hour.

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It turns out it's an airplane carrying a flare or something like that.

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We've just regard that concentration.

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However, around all the ports in the United States, San Francisco, Los Angeles, the coastal area around New York City and New Orleans, there's concentrations.

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Around Los Alamos and the Albuquerque area there's concentrations.

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Around white sands there's concentrations and down here it can't put Texas.

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Now this can't put Texas, concentration is due to an outbreak of odd lights about two years ago.

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We never did determine exactly what the lights were.

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They were a special type of report that happened to occur again and we haven't paid too much attention to that.

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But the ones around Oak Ridge and the ones around Albuquerque may possibly mean something.

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We don't know.

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The rest of the reports are pretty well scattered out around the United States.

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If you plot these reports up by years, they started in the West Coast, up around in the Northwest, around the Washington, Oregon, Idaho in 1947.

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The next year they were... they tended to be on the East Coast to a certain extent.

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And from then on, they were just spread out all the United States. There was no pattern.

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We've plotted the frequency of these reports again.

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You'll see that it doesn't vary too much year from year to year.

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This large peak down here, this large peak down here occurred right after the first sighting by this Arnold out in Idaho.

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And it was undoubtedly... a lot of it was due to mass hysteria or people wanting to get their names in the paper.

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However, you can see it tapered off and it reaches a peak right in...

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You see, this is June in July. And every year almost it reaches a peak in there.

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It's also a peak to a certain extent here in January. And then again, there's a peak here in December.

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Now, there's actually no direct pattern to that, but there's enough of a pattern.

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The plants have seated down in your mind. You sort of wonder why this thing should run a cycle like that.

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In these two years, 47 and 48, there was a lot of newspaper publicity.

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However, in 49 and 50 and 51, there was very little newspaper publicity.

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And the reports from 49 and 50 and 51 are mostly from military sources.

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The civilians have dropped out because possibly they didn't know how to report this stuff or they weren't interested in it.

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The Air Force came out and said there was nothing to it, so they just quit making reports.

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However, a military has continued to make reports.

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I shouldn't say a military in a few airlines pilots are covering these two years.

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They've taken the reported shapes. We have a lot of questions. People say, well, what are people reporting?

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So we've broken it down into shapes. In this segment here, there were no shapes reported.

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Somebody just called in and wrote a letter that I saw something, so we've had disregard it.

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This segment right here represents some type of an astronomical body.

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I mean, you could say it was either a bright light in a sky or a streak of light that could have been a meteor.

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We've lumped all those together. In this section, our disc or spherical shaped objects.

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We've lumped those together because we don't believe that people can tell if they're seeing a disc or a sphere.

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Unless they should have to see it both in the bottom view and edge wise to determine this.

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So we've lumped those all together. Some of these could be balloons.

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I mean, there's no doubt about that. They could be weather balloons. However,

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due to our contrary to popular opinion, these things, they are definitely not all balloons.

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These are shapes that just report as oval shapes. It's difficult to tell if they are.

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Miscellaneous is almost anything. Vapor trails, probably actually were vapor trails of aircraft.

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There's one small segment in here, which is only six tenths of 1% of all 800 reports.

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And that is reports of groups of lights going through this sky.

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And we've had quite a bit of difficulty with those because the reports are usually from pretty good sources.

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And they'll see, oh, anywhere from six to 20 lights in a formation going streaking across the sky.

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Well, it's almost impossible if that would, that you would find six meteors together.

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I understand it's possible to see two of them together that it would appear to be in formation.

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But no more than that. Certain percentage, one percent are,

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report to be balloons. Now, these are balloons that we've not been able to establish the origin.

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In other words, we don't, they're just balloons floating over the United States and they're probably,

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meteorological balloons that have gotten loose from some station and have burst when they were supposed to.

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Two and a half percent resemble actual aircraft.

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We've had quite a bit of a discussion as to whether or not these objects could possibly be some highly developed aircraft type that the Soviets have.

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We've almost been able to throw that out because a small percentage of reports that even mention any shape due to aircraft that would resemble aircraft.

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This percentage here are reported to be rockets or cigar shaped objects.

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Now, once again, we've gone into that quite thoroughly and have found it.

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And it's common knowledge that any bright light traveling through the air will burn an image in your eye and will,

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you'll have some persistence there and it will appear to be elongated when actually it's just a round source of light.

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That's some of the shapes that we've had.

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Now, now to getting back to this disc or spherical shaped objects, these things are always silent.

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I mean, if we want to assume that this object we're dealing with is a dish shape thing.

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These are always silent. They're usually highly maneuverable.

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Although lately, the reports that have been coming in have neglected to put this 90 degree turn business and they just go over at a great rate of speed.

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But the fact that they're silent is quite interesting because we have no knowledge of any type of power plant that would be completely silent.

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Now, these are the types of people that send in our reports.

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This segment here are civilians.

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And most of these reports came in when a project was first initiated back in 1947-48.

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This black segment here are reports from military sources.

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There, we've put them in as just ground officers, not usually not flying officers, or at least reports are not made from the air.

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We have a small segment here of radar returns that we've been unable to explain.

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This section right here are reports from civilian pilots who are airborne at the time of sighting.

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This segment in here, especially as the one we're very interested in, they're reports from airline pilots, from tower operators, and balloon observers.

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Now, these balloon observers are normally people like the General Mills crews that launch these highlights and balloons.

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And here we have technically trained personnel, such as scientists, engineers, and so forth.

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This segment, as I said, is the ones that we're very much interested in.

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Now, airline pilots, we consider very reliable, because they're very...

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Well, they don't like to stick their neck out and make one, as reports and lists are absolutely sure they saw something.

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They're received from very unfavorable publicity during this last rash of reports.

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So the first one, I should say, in 47 and 48 and 18, absolutely refused to give us reports, unless they're completely sold that they saw something.

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Well, I've talked to quite a few of the pilots, and one of them made a statement that if he looked out his window and saw a V2 rocket or something like that flying wingtip to wingtip with him over Spokane, he wouldn't tell anybody about it.

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I mean, he never report the airports because nobody, because they just say it was crazy and probably grounding.

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So that's the big difficulty we have in getting reports from airline pilots.

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We do hear through the great vignette that they see an awful lot of things that they don't report, especially over in the Near East Iran and Middle East.

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They should say, Iran, Palestine, Egypt, and those runs.

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Now, we haven't been able to pin that down as fact. That's just a rumor that we've picked up in talking to other airline pilots who've heard other airlines pilots say that.

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But we've never been able to pin it down. However, it would be very interesting to find out and we're making attempts, although we've run up against a lot of trouble because they said the pilots just don't want publicity and they won't make those reports.

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This segment in here have been reported by Air Force pilots and aerial sightings. A lot of these have been balloons.

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We've had a lot of trouble with the balloons in it. A pilot meeting of balloon in the air isn't familiar with what that balloon is going to do.

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I mean, he's familiar with meeting another airplane and he's already made up his mind as to what the rate of closure should be and different things like that.

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Yo, usually assume that when he meets a balloon instead of a balloon, it's some object about 30 or 40 feet in diameter and judging the rate of closure, he assumes it's going at a very terrific speed.

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But we've been able, in some cases, to actually show how that pilot was misled and that it was actually a balloon.

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However, we don't try to say that everything was a balloon. In other words, if a balloon was launched in the area,

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we try to definitely pin that down. We can get the time to launch the balloon, the rate of a cent, the winds are lost.

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We can plot out the path of that balloon and plot out the pilot's path and show by various lines of sight how he actually did see the balloon.

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In the past, it's been a practice to say, well, there was a balloon launch within 100 miles, consequently the pilot must have seen the balloon.

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We don't want to try that because it's, well, we just want to have more proof before we say that it's a balloon.

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And the air force has gotten into a lot of trouble in the past by very loosely tying up these balloons with the sightings.

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We have some photographs of these objects that we have quite a few photographs, I should say.

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A lot of them are definitely either hoaxes or else they're flaws in the negative and the people that have found this grin have looked at it and said,

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I took a picture of the sky and I didn't see this flying saucer although here's a picture of it and I'll send it in to us.

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It's not too difficult to examine the embossed into a microscope and find out that the image is due to an imperfection in the negative.

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However, we have a few photographs that are very difficult to evaluate.

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This is one of them right here. It was taken in Phoenix, Arizona on the 7th of July 1947.

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This has been hinged around quite a bit and there's a little bit of doubt as to whether or not this was purposely faked but we've never been able to prove it.

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This picture is probably the most interesting one we've ever received, mainly because we went into the background of this thing a lot more.

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This was taken in Lubbock, Texas last September. Now this Lubbock case is probably the most interesting one.

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The whole case is the most interesting one we've ever had.

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These five college professors from Texas Tech were sitting out in the backyard one evening and I think it was in August. It's August 25th.

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They hadn't been discussing meat ears so they were sitting there looking up in the sky and all of a sudden this bunch of lights were in over.

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So one of them looked at each other and said, what was that? Nobody seemed to know.

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About a half an hour later while they were still discussing the lights and they said they wished something like that would go over again and it did.

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So all together in a period of five or six nights they observed 12 of these things that went over.

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Well they assumed that it was some kind of a missile that the Air Force had been developing and being nosy they thought they'd find out what this...

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Well they reached this conclusion after they saw the first two that they'd find out what these missiles were.

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So they set up their own measuring crewed measuring systems.

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They were able to set up or measure the angles on the houses and things in their backyard so they could tell like angles thing went through and they tied it with a stopwatch.

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They also set up a baseline 90 degrees to the path and incidentally these things always came over the same path and it roughly the same time every night so they knew about what was going on.

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They set up this baseline and got each end with two way radios and some homemade, you might call them field lights or measuring angle measuring devices and try to get an allot to the way we're unsuccessful on that.

194
00:20:58,940 --> 00:21:04,940
However they did get their angular measurement across the sky and it came out to be 30 degrees per second.

195
00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:06,940
That's the only measurement we've got on these things.

196
00:21:06,940 --> 00:21:12,940
We didn't hear about it till about a month after it happened and I went down and spent quite a bit of time with these people.

197
00:21:12,940 --> 00:21:21,940
At first we thought it was just one big hoax that they were just out to get some publicity but on investigating these people and talking to them.

198
00:21:21,940 --> 00:21:31,940
So we thought out that there was this professor who was headed the physics department of Texas Tech, a gentleman who was headed the petroleum engineering department of Texas Tech,

199
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:43,940
a gentleman who had spent the last five years in Alaska studying in Aurora and a doctor of mathematics and they had an astronomer who didn't see these although he was in on the investigation.

200
00:21:44,940 --> 00:21:50,940
Well after they found out the Air Force was interested in it, they took an entirely different view.

201
00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:58,940
I mean they found out that it wasn't one of our missiles and they began to wonder what it was but the thing had happened and it was finished and they couldn't get any more information for us.

202
00:21:58,940 --> 00:22:08,940
Now these pictures, well incidentally before that they put a couple pieces in a local newspaper to try to determine who else had seen these things.

203
00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:15,940
And they put their names in the paper so that people could write to them and say I saw or I didn't see it and they got a lot of publicity.

204
00:22:15,940 --> 00:22:25,940
Consequently everybody in Lubbock, Texas was sitting on the night waiting for these things to go over and a college freshman at Texas Tech had his camera ready when they were in 1990.

205
00:22:25,940 --> 00:22:27,940
And this is the picture that he got.

206
00:22:27,940 --> 00:22:33,940
Now these are, this is one formation and one over and this is another formation.

207
00:22:33,940 --> 00:22:42,940
His story is that he saw one go over and all of a sudden don't even want to try to get a picture. He was a fairly good amateur photographer.

208
00:22:42,940 --> 00:22:49,940
He took these with a code act 35. He shot them a tenth of a second at 35 on plus the next film.

209
00:22:49,940 --> 00:23:00,940
He tracked them and consequently we don't know that this blur is due to the movement of the object or the movement of his camera since he shot them on a tenth of a second.

210
00:23:00,940 --> 00:23:03,940
This is the first formation and one over and this is the second formation.

211
00:23:03,940 --> 00:23:10,940
Now we've tried every way that we know of to prove that these pictures are fake.

212
00:23:10,940 --> 00:23:13,940
I've talked to the kid and in fact I talked to him twice.

213
00:23:13,940 --> 00:23:16,940
We've had OSI talk to him about three times in the final.

214
00:23:16,940 --> 00:23:22,940
Last time they got him alone and they said now look this will let you back out on this if you want it.

215
00:23:22,940 --> 00:23:27,940
We'll never tell anybody as far as the newspapers concerned and everybody who sold these pictures too.

216
00:23:27,940 --> 00:23:33,940
They're really good photos but if you'll just confess the OSI or I will drop it.

217
00:23:33,940 --> 00:23:38,940
But he said no, he said these are pictures of something that flew over Lubbock, Texas on.

218
00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:41,940
Well these had to be taken on the 31st of August.

219
00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:46,940
He said I don't know what they are but he said I took the pictures and that's all I know.

220
00:23:46,940 --> 00:23:50,940
And he signed a sworn statement for us so he had to drop it right there.

221
00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:52,940
I mean we've got no way to answer.

222
00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:56,940
This picture just checked the observations as far as...

223
00:23:56,940 --> 00:23:58,940
No sir, I was going to just mention that.

224
00:23:58,940 --> 00:24:01,940
The college professors said that these pictures are fake.

225
00:24:01,940 --> 00:24:02,940
I mean they won't believe them at all.

226
00:24:02,940 --> 00:24:07,940
I say the things that they saw, they know are too dim to ever take a picture of.

227
00:24:07,940 --> 00:24:13,940
Now we cross checked with the kid on that and he said well he said that's right.

228
00:24:13,940 --> 00:24:17,940
He said after I took these pictures I didn't develop them for two days

229
00:24:17,940 --> 00:24:22,940
because he said I just thought my own mind that I wouldn't even have an image because they were...

230
00:24:22,940 --> 00:24:27,940
What I saw was I thought was too dim to take a picture of but I just took a chance.

231
00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:29,940
So he took those pictures.

232
00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:32,940
I finally developed them and that's what he came out with.

233
00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:37,940
I believe he got $8 for the original set of prints from a newspaper.

234
00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:39,940
We had those prints over the photo.

235
00:24:39,940 --> 00:24:42,940
I have an ink checked him out.

236
00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:43,940
I mean they are an actual image.

237
00:24:43,940 --> 00:24:45,940
There's no doubt about that.

238
00:24:45,940 --> 00:24:50,940
He could have taken a black sheet of paper and just punched holes in it and faked them very easily

239
00:24:50,940 --> 00:24:52,940
but he swears up and down.

240
00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:53,940
He didn't do that.

241
00:24:53,940 --> 00:25:01,940
These things under a microscope show that the relative position of these things vary.

242
00:25:02,940 --> 00:25:04,940
Just a little bit in each picture.

243
00:25:04,940 --> 00:25:10,940
It was doubtful if he took a piece of cardboard and just punched holes.

244
00:25:10,940 --> 00:25:17,940
If he would be smart enough to vary the position of the hole in each exposure

245
00:25:17,940 --> 00:25:20,940
he'd probably just taken four shots the same thing and maybe move his camera

246
00:25:20,940 --> 00:25:23,940
to give him a little appearance of motion here.

247
00:25:23,940 --> 00:25:31,940
But the actual exposures or images are moved just a little bit in each exposure.

248
00:25:31,940 --> 00:25:36,940
Now again that could come from the fact that maybe he tipped his paper as he took the picture

249
00:25:36,940 --> 00:25:38,940
but we don't know.

250
00:25:38,940 --> 00:25:41,940
We've never been able to prove that they were fakes.

251
00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:47,940
The density on the negative compares to the density of a bright star.

252
00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:52,940
In other words we used the same exposure in the same film and went out and took a couple pictures

253
00:25:52,940 --> 00:25:56,940
from bright planets and it's the density of the negative.

254
00:25:56,940 --> 00:26:00,940
It's just a little bit more than that of a bright planet at night.

255
00:26:00,940 --> 00:26:03,940
So that's all we know about it.

256
00:26:03,940 --> 00:26:04,940
We haven't been able to tell.

257
00:26:04,940 --> 00:26:08,940
Have you been able to get two sets of lights in some cases other than a man?

258
00:26:08,940 --> 00:26:09,940
No sir we haven't.

259
00:26:09,940 --> 00:26:12,940
We asked him about that and he said he took the pictures.

260
00:26:12,940 --> 00:26:15,940
It looked like a straight line.

261
00:26:15,940 --> 00:26:17,940
He didn't notice two different formations.

262
00:26:17,940 --> 00:26:22,940
Now I always hesitate to tell this because it could again be one big coincidence.

263
00:26:22,940 --> 00:26:28,940
But if you plot those points on a piece of, I mean a large one on a piece of graph paper

264
00:26:28,940 --> 00:26:34,940
and plot them out exactly, you'll see that as the consecutive frames,

265
00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:43,940
one raw lights the back row will say moves up to the first raw and then it moves on ahead in the third picture.

266
00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:49,940
Now that doesn't make sense at all because the fact that there are two different formations he took.

267
00:26:49,940 --> 00:26:53,940
The second row, the same as the first row.

268
00:26:53,940 --> 00:26:54,940
Yes sir.

269
00:26:54,940 --> 00:26:58,940
I had the plot if you've been seeing a little later.

270
00:26:58,940 --> 00:27:04,309
We haven't been able to reach any conclusions at all.

271
00:27:04,309 --> 00:27:09,309
There's only two possibilities that we can think of.

272
00:27:09,309 --> 00:27:12,309
Here are the plots in those.

273
00:27:12,309 --> 00:27:15,309
Only two possibilities that we can think of.

274
00:27:15,309 --> 00:27:22,309
One of them is that it's still one great big hoax that the college professor just decided to see how much they can fool people in love with Texas

275
00:27:22,309 --> 00:27:24,309
and they planted these pictures with the kid.

276
00:27:24,309 --> 00:27:29,309
The other thing is that there was no one that there was a duck flight on an area at the time.

277
00:27:29,309 --> 00:27:32,309
That the ducks were flying across love.

278
00:27:32,309 --> 00:27:38,309
We tried and the people in love tried to see whether or not you could take a picture of ducks at night

279
00:27:38,309 --> 00:27:41,309
just from the reflection of the city lights and that's impossible.

280
00:27:42,309 --> 00:27:49,309
So if these pictures are true, are not fakes or then these pictures are not in ducks.

281
00:27:49,309 --> 00:27:50,309
We'll put it that way.

282
00:27:50,309 --> 00:27:53,309
The college professors won't believe the ducks story at all.

283
00:27:53,309 --> 00:27:55,309
They say those were not ducks.

284
00:27:55,309 --> 00:28:02,309
If they were ducks, they'd have to be at such and such a height to give that 30 degrees per second if they were that low.

285
00:28:02,309 --> 00:28:06,309
The fact that it comes out to be about 75 to 80 feet.

286
00:28:06,309 --> 00:28:10,309
The ducks would have to be that low to be flying 60 miles an hour and go through that angle.

287
00:28:11,309 --> 00:28:12,309
Certain time.

288
00:28:12,309 --> 00:28:13,309
They say they are not ducks.

289
00:28:13,309 --> 00:28:17,309
That's the only possibility we have or the only idea of what they could be.

290
00:28:17,309 --> 00:28:20,309
They might be ducks reflecting the city lights.

291
00:28:20,309 --> 00:28:28,309
Although it's still hard to believe that because just the wall of circumstance, it just doesn't sound like ducks.

292
00:28:28,309 --> 00:28:34,309
A lot of people in Alabama who are looking for these objects on these nights, did see ducks.

293
00:28:35,309 --> 00:28:38,309
And when we were down, they'd call us up and they'd say, I know what these lights are.

294
00:28:38,309 --> 00:28:44,309
They're ducks because I saw them and I could see the wings flapping and I could hear them honking and I could see their next sticking out in here.

295
00:28:44,309 --> 00:28:49,309
Wasting our good taxpayers money coming down here talking about it because they were ducks.

296
00:28:49,309 --> 00:28:56,309
But once again, there's about half the people that saw all these objects again said they were not ducks because they said,

297
00:28:56,309 --> 00:29:00,309
we've lived in Lubbock all our life and we've seen ducks for the last 30 years and those were not ducks.

298
00:29:00,309 --> 00:29:05,309
So we're up against a blank wall on this one case.

299
00:29:05,309 --> 00:29:21,380
Now we've reached several general, I shouldn't say reached any conclusions.

300
00:29:21,380 --> 00:29:28,380
There's two or three general facts about all of the sightings, overall collection of sightings that we have.

301
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:32,380
One of them is that on our good sightings is absolutely no noise.

302
00:29:32,380 --> 00:29:36,380
Every report is connected with these objects, no matter how low they are.

303
00:29:36,380 --> 00:29:44,380
They may be reported just being specks in the sky or downstriolary low and there's absolutely no noise reported.

304
00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:51,380
And once again, we don't know of any kind of a propulsion system that would do that.

305
00:29:51,380 --> 00:29:55,380
I mean, everything that we know of has some type of noise connected with it.

306
00:29:56,380 --> 00:30:04,380
Another thing is we've had a lot of radar returns, but we have never had a visual sighting linked up with the radar return.

307
00:30:04,380 --> 00:30:14,380
We've had two or three reports of that, but we've never been able to pin them down enough and get enough facts about them to make sure that they were both looking at the same thing.

308
00:30:15,380 --> 00:30:18,380
They've had a project on this down at Hollumman.

309
00:30:18,380 --> 00:30:23,380
They've been very much interested in it because they've been seeing it compared on a comparative basis,

310
00:30:23,380 --> 00:30:27,380
more of these things around the Hollum and the White Sands area.

311
00:30:27,380 --> 00:30:30,380
They did track something down there with their synths, the oil lights.

312
00:30:30,380 --> 00:30:36,380
They don't know what it is, and it could possibly be a slow moving day like media.

313
00:30:36,380 --> 00:30:39,380
Now I'm not an astronomer, but I understand such things exist.

314
00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:42,380
They got pictures of it and they were able to track it.

315
00:30:42,380 --> 00:30:47,380
They saw about five or six of these things at once.

316
00:30:47,380 --> 00:30:53,380
It was right after they launched a missile and they had their Scania synth oil lights pointed up in the air

317
00:30:53,380 --> 00:30:59,380
and they saw these four or five things right behind a missile and they got the word to swing over on those and forget the missile.

318
00:30:59,380 --> 00:31:04,380
And they're a little bit doubtful as to whether or not all stations track the same object.

319
00:31:04,380 --> 00:31:11,380
So consequently their readings are a little bit off, but they did come up with an outlet to reading about 150,000 feet.

320
00:31:11,380 --> 00:31:14,380
The speed was very great.

321
00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:18,380
They came up with speed of about 3500 miles an hour.

322
00:31:18,380 --> 00:31:25,380
But again, they won't back that up because they aren't sure of the conditions that these readings were made under.

323
00:31:25,380 --> 00:31:32,380
That's the only time we've ever come really close to getting any accurate data on these things.

324
00:31:32,380 --> 00:31:38,380
And I wanted to say again that it could be that it was a media in a daytime.

325
00:31:38,380 --> 00:31:44,380
Now they have another type of phenomenon or object or something floating around down that area.

326
00:31:44,380 --> 00:31:46,380
And that's these green fireballs.

327
00:31:46,380 --> 00:31:49,380
I don't know if you've been reading about that in a paper, but there's a doctor.

328
00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:57,380
Lincoln La Paz down in Albuquerque, the University of New Mexico has been making a big deal out of these green fireballs.

329
00:31:57,380 --> 00:32:03,380
They appear to be similar to a media, except that they have a different flat trajectory.

330
00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:08,380
They're reported to be a brilliant greenish blue color.

331
00:32:08,380 --> 00:32:10,380
And they don't explode.

332
00:32:10,380 --> 00:32:15,380
I mean, they appear to be very low about a third or a fourth of the size of a full moon.

333
00:32:15,380 --> 00:32:18,380
And they're very low, and they just go out like that.

334
00:32:18,380 --> 00:32:19,380
They don't explode.

335
00:32:19,380 --> 00:32:23,380
Now Dr. La Paz's theory on this thing is that if it's a normal media,

336
00:32:23,380 --> 00:32:28,380
there should be a terrific explosion because of the size of these things.

337
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:31,380
It indicates that they're down low on the atmosphere.

338
00:32:31,380 --> 00:32:37,380
And there should be a terrific explosion when they're going to get down low enough to explode.

339
00:32:37,380 --> 00:32:40,380
Again, we don't know what they are.

340
00:32:40,380 --> 00:32:41,380
I mean, they actually exist.

341
00:32:41,380 --> 00:32:42,380
There's no doubt about it.

342
00:32:42,380 --> 00:32:45,380
I mean, it's not anybody's imagination because they've been reported by,

343
00:32:45,380 --> 00:32:48,380
well, Dr. La Paz himself has seen one.

344
00:32:48,380 --> 00:32:50,380
And we've had some very fine reports.

345
00:32:50,380 --> 00:32:53,380
And they all follow the same path.

346
00:32:53,380 --> 00:32:58,380
There's a definite flat trajectory right across the well parallel to the Earth's surface.

347
00:32:58,380 --> 00:33:03,380
They go out with no explosion and they're a brilliant green.

348
00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:05,380
Now, airline pilots have seen them.

349
00:33:05,380 --> 00:33:07,380
And maybe if they meet them head on or something like that,

350
00:33:07,380 --> 00:33:10,380
they'll rank the airliner up and just about toss everybody out of seats

351
00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:15,380
because they think they're going to have a head-on collision with this, whatever it would be.

352
00:33:15,380 --> 00:33:19,380
Now, Cambridge labs have been working on that for two years.

353
00:33:19,380 --> 00:33:23,380
And they came up with no conclusions whatsoever as to what there might be.

354
00:33:23,380 --> 00:33:30,380
So I understand that we're going to take it over again and see if we can possibly come up with some idea.

355
00:33:30,380 --> 00:33:37,380
Now, we've talked to Dr. Kaplan's hypothesis ideas that they come from Russia.

356
00:33:37,380 --> 00:33:40,380
He said that using some kind of a self-destruction missile

357
00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:44,380
and they're zeroing in on Los Alamos.

358
00:33:44,380 --> 00:33:46,380
Now, that's a good story.

359
00:33:46,380 --> 00:33:48,380
I mean, it sounds really exciting.

360
00:33:48,380 --> 00:33:50,380
And there's a possibility.

361
00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:53,380
I mean, we can't say that it isn't because we don't know what it is.

362
00:33:53,380 --> 00:33:57,380
We've talked to Dr. Kaplan quite a bit on his subject,

363
00:33:57,380 --> 00:34:01,380
probably knowing from the University of California.

364
00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:08,380
He thinks that there are either some kind of possibly a new meteor that we are not familiar with

365
00:34:08,380 --> 00:34:12,380
or some phenomena that's related to the aurora.

366
00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:16,380
He claims that he can duplicate this color in his lab.

367
00:34:16,380 --> 00:34:20,380
And I'm not sure of just exactly how he does it.

368
00:34:20,380 --> 00:34:22,380
I believe he uses...

369
00:34:22,380 --> 00:34:24,380
Well, I don't know. I won't say I've gotten a report.

370
00:34:24,380 --> 00:34:26,380
But I don't want to quote something I don't know about.

371
00:34:26,380 --> 00:34:28,380
But anyway, he can duplicate this color.

372
00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:30,380
And he believes that that's what it is.

373
00:34:30,380 --> 00:34:36,380
Now, as I say that is a definite division of these things.

374
00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:37,380
I mean, they definitely exist.

375
00:34:37,380 --> 00:34:41,380
And our problem is to find out, really find out what they are.

376
00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:44,380
If there's some kind of phenomena, then we can turn over to the astronomers

377
00:34:44,380 --> 00:34:45,380
and let them take it.

378
00:34:45,380 --> 00:34:47,380
If they should have to come from Russia,

379
00:34:47,380 --> 00:34:50,380
then we'd better start finding out what they're trying to do on.

380
00:34:50,380 --> 00:34:53,380
How many of these screenlights have worked to have?

381
00:34:53,380 --> 00:34:54,380
We have quite a few, sir.

382
00:34:54,380 --> 00:34:55,380
I hate to say.

383
00:34:55,380 --> 00:34:57,380
I mean, I couldn't take exactly a number.

384
00:34:57,380 --> 00:35:00,380
But they started out, I believe in 49.

385
00:35:00,380 --> 00:35:03,380
There was a big outbreak of them in 49.

386
00:35:03,380 --> 00:35:10,380
And they seemed to appear in January or in December in January.

387
00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:13,380
In that period between the years.

388
00:35:13,380 --> 00:35:17,380
And they coincide with a meteor shower.

389
00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:20,380
It occurs that time, I don't remember the name it is.

390
00:35:20,380 --> 00:35:23,380
But for a long time, they tried to tie them in with that meteor shower.

391
00:35:23,380 --> 00:35:26,380
But just recently, now, within the last year,

392
00:35:26,380 --> 00:35:32,380
they began to occur more over the whole year instead of coming at one time.

393
00:35:32,380 --> 00:35:37,380
OSI, Dr. Lepoth, worked for OSI in 49 on these.

394
00:35:38,380 --> 00:35:41,380
And they tried to come up with a conclusion they couldn't.

395
00:35:41,380 --> 00:35:44,380
They've also spent a lot of time trying to find any fragments.

396
00:35:44,380 --> 00:35:46,380
And have never been successful.

397
00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:48,380
I mean, they've been able to triangulate these things

398
00:35:48,380 --> 00:35:51,380
and get a heck of a lot of reports on people who've seen them,

399
00:35:51,380 --> 00:35:52,380
or seen one of them.

400
00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:56,380
And then work their triangulation like they do in large meteors.

401
00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:59,380
But they've never been able to find any parts.

402
00:35:59,380 --> 00:36:03,380
They want us the fires to pick up, put a dust collector on a B-29

403
00:36:03,380 --> 00:36:06,380
and try to fly through the area right after these things occurred.

404
00:36:07,380 --> 00:36:11,380
Try to pick up any dust that they might have left in the upper atmosphere

405
00:36:11,380 --> 00:36:13,380
but they didn't find anything at all.

406
00:36:13,380 --> 00:36:16,380
It would indicate that anything unusual is going on.

407
00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:21,380
So we're up against a stone wall on these things too.

408
00:36:21,380 --> 00:36:23,380
I mean, all we've got just people's ideas.

409
00:36:23,380 --> 00:36:26,380
We've got no proof as to what they actually may be.

410
00:36:26,380 --> 00:36:29,380
Now, we've got one of our approaches on this thing

411
00:36:29,380 --> 00:36:33,380
is going to be the use of diffraction ratings on cameras.

412
00:36:34,380 --> 00:36:36,380
This is Dr. Kampland's idea.

413
00:36:36,380 --> 00:36:40,380
He says that we can, I should say he says,

414
00:36:40,380 --> 00:36:43,380
he knows that we can take a very extensive camera

415
00:36:43,380 --> 00:36:46,380
and put a diffraction rating on it

416
00:36:46,380 --> 00:36:50,380
and give them to these guards around Sandia and White Sands

417
00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:54,380
and all these places where the guards are outdoors 24 hours a day.

418
00:36:54,380 --> 00:36:56,380
And every time they see something that's unusual,

419
00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:58,380
just point the camera in and take a picture.

420
00:36:58,380 --> 00:37:02,380
And he says that he can take the reading

421
00:37:02,380 --> 00:37:05,380
and match him up either by knowing objects

422
00:37:05,380 --> 00:37:08,380
or match him up in his lab and tell us

423
00:37:08,380 --> 00:37:10,380
what the composition is of this object

424
00:37:10,380 --> 00:37:12,380
that's emitting his light.

425
00:37:12,380 --> 00:37:15,380
Now, we haven't just strictly in the planning stage.

426
00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:17,380
Now, we haven't done very much

427
00:37:17,380 --> 00:37:20,380
except Dr. Kampland is now trying to figure out the cheapest camera

428
00:37:20,380 --> 00:37:23,380
that he can build for us and the most rugged cameras

429
00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:25,380
so these guards can throw it around

430
00:37:25,380 --> 00:37:29,380
and still we'll get some decent pictures of these objects.

431
00:37:29,380 --> 00:37:32,380
Another thing that we've done is recently

432
00:37:32,380 --> 00:37:35,380
we've briefed Air Defense Command on this whole project

433
00:37:35,380 --> 00:37:40,380
and have got their cooperation with their radar scope cameras.

434
00:37:40,380 --> 00:37:45,380
As I mentioned before, we have had quite a few unknown radar returns.

435
00:37:45,380 --> 00:37:48,380
These things are the Air Defense Command radars

436
00:37:48,380 --> 00:37:54,380
tracked objects going anywhere from 1,000 up to about 3,500 miles an hour.

437
00:37:54,380 --> 00:37:56,380
We've never been able to determine, however,

438
00:37:56,380 --> 00:37:59,380
that these weren't malfunctions in a radar set

439
00:37:59,380 --> 00:38:03,380
or do this some type of atmospheric phenomena.

440
00:38:03,380 --> 00:38:06,380
We've tried to get the weather charts

441
00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:08,380
at the time, or weather conditions,

442
00:38:08,380 --> 00:38:10,380
at the time this phenomena has occurred

443
00:38:10,380 --> 00:38:12,380
and trying to correlate that data and show

444
00:38:12,380 --> 00:38:15,380
that do this certain type of weather condition

445
00:38:15,380 --> 00:38:17,380
that they had this type of return.

446
00:38:17,380 --> 00:38:21,380
Now, we haven't had too much luck on that angle.

447
00:38:21,380 --> 00:38:24,380
So now we're going to try to get radar scope cameras

448
00:38:24,380 --> 00:38:27,380
and get pictures of this stuff, and then we'll know.

449
00:38:27,380 --> 00:38:31,380
And before we've just had the radar observers' interpretation

450
00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:33,380
of what he saw in his scope,

451
00:38:33,380 --> 00:38:37,380
we think that with pictures, probably we can do a little bit more with this.

452
00:38:37,380 --> 00:38:39,380
Another step further than that,

453
00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:42,380
and we haven't done anything on this except talk about,

454
00:38:42,380 --> 00:38:46,380
and it may get into the point where we're going to do this,

455
00:38:46,380 --> 00:38:50,380
and that is try to put in a long focal length camera,

456
00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:54,380
and try to match a long focal length camera

457
00:38:54,380 --> 00:38:56,380
with the radar spinner.

458
00:38:56,380 --> 00:38:59,380
So whenever this radar operator gets a return,

459
00:38:59,380 --> 00:39:01,380
all you have to do is poke a button,

460
00:39:01,380 --> 00:39:03,380
and this camera will take a picture of the area

461
00:39:03,380 --> 00:39:06,380
this guy that the radar spinner is pointing at.

462
00:39:06,380 --> 00:39:08,380
And if we get that far,

463
00:39:08,380 --> 00:39:11,380
and if we get a funny return, we'll say,

464
00:39:11,380 --> 00:39:13,380
and usually return a scope,

465
00:39:13,380 --> 00:39:16,380
and if we get an image, no matter how big the image is,

466
00:39:16,380 --> 00:39:19,380
on a photographic plater on a film at the same time,

467
00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:23,380
well then we can say that this radar operator was actually picking up something.

468
00:39:23,380 --> 00:39:26,380
I mean, that would be a great help to us now,

469
00:39:26,380 --> 00:39:29,380
because we don't know for sure if we're picking anything up.

470
00:39:29,380 --> 00:39:31,380
But that's the next step,

471
00:39:31,380 --> 00:39:32,380
and it's still in the planning,

472
00:39:32,380 --> 00:39:36,380
or even in the talking stage right now.

473
00:39:36,380 --> 00:39:39,380
That's about the main thing we're going to try to do,

474
00:39:39,380 --> 00:39:41,380
as far as future plans is concerned.

475
00:39:41,380 --> 00:39:44,380
We want to try to get some concrete data

476
00:39:44,380 --> 00:39:46,380
to say that these things exist.

477
00:39:46,380 --> 00:39:51,380
Up to present time, we've got no real proof that anything even exists.

478
00:39:51,380 --> 00:39:55,380
The only thing we've got are reports from very reliable people

479
00:39:55,380 --> 00:39:58,380
that do have a lot of details in them,

480
00:39:58,380 --> 00:40:00,380
but the details aren't the kind that we want.

481
00:40:00,380 --> 00:40:03,380
I mean, they don't give us enough data as to the possible performance

482
00:40:03,380 --> 00:40:07,380
or anything else that we might need on these objects.

483
00:40:07,380 --> 00:40:13,380
The official Air Force viewpoint is that we've got enough good reports

484
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:16,380
from reliable people to be interested in this.

485
00:40:16,380 --> 00:40:20,380
We can't back up any of these books by Sculler Keo

486
00:40:20,380 --> 00:40:22,380
and say that we know that they're from Venus

487
00:40:22,380 --> 00:40:24,380
or that we know they're from Russia,

488
00:40:24,380 --> 00:40:26,380
or that we even know they exist.

489
00:40:26,380 --> 00:40:29,380
I mean, there's a possibility that everything that's being reported

490
00:40:29,380 --> 00:40:34,380
is as a balloon, or as a mere, or ducks,

491
00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:38,380
or anything you can think of that somebody just saw them from an odd angle

492
00:40:38,380 --> 00:40:40,380
or under odd lighting conditions

493
00:40:40,380 --> 00:40:42,380
and they looked like something else.

494
00:40:42,380 --> 00:40:47,380
But the present time, we have enough faith in these people

495
00:40:47,380 --> 00:40:51,380
who have been turning into reports to say that we don't exactly believe that.

496
00:40:51,380 --> 00:40:54,380
I mean, we're going to have to get more proof before we can say

497
00:40:54,380 --> 00:40:57,380
that everything that's being seen is some known object

498
00:40:57,380 --> 00:41:02,380
just viewed under different circumstances.

499
00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:06,380
I could go on for a long time telling you about the good reports we've had.

500
00:41:06,380 --> 00:41:11,380
I'd say about 20% of the 800 or 900 reports

501
00:41:11,380 --> 00:41:14,380
that we now have just cannot be explained.

502
00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:16,380
I mean, you can't say that looks like them.

503
00:41:16,380 --> 00:41:18,380
You can't say that that could be a balloon

504
00:41:18,380 --> 00:41:22,380
if there is a balloon in the area because it just doesn't fly up.

505
00:41:22,380 --> 00:41:24,380
And most of these people have made these reports

506
00:41:24,380 --> 00:41:27,380
are well-established airline pilots.

507
00:41:27,380 --> 00:41:29,380
I mean, old pilots who've had a lot of flying time.

508
00:41:29,380 --> 00:41:32,380
The people have released these general mills balloons

509
00:41:32,380 --> 00:41:34,380
have seen something.

510
00:41:34,380 --> 00:41:37,380
The people at white sands have seen very odd things.

511
00:41:37,380 --> 00:41:42,380
It's Dr. Lapaz himself has seen a couple things floating over the mountains down to Mexico

512
00:41:42,380 --> 00:41:45,380
and he couldn't explain.

513
00:41:45,380 --> 00:41:48,380
We've got about 20% of our reports are like that.

514
00:41:48,380 --> 00:41:54,380
We can't go up to them and say, now, this can't be your nuts.

515
00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:56,380
That would be our only answer on those.

516
00:41:56,380 --> 00:41:58,380
You're just crazy.

517
00:41:58,380 --> 00:42:01,380
But you can't go up to anybody and tell them that.

518
00:42:01,380 --> 00:42:04,380
They've seen something and we don't know what it is.

519
00:42:04,380 --> 00:42:09,380
Now, well, some of the big questions that enter our mind on this

520
00:42:09,380 --> 00:42:12,380
is one, the no sound business.

521
00:42:12,380 --> 00:42:14,380
If it actually exists and there's no,

522
00:42:14,380 --> 00:42:16,380
there's some type of propulsion,

523
00:42:16,380 --> 00:42:18,380
but there's no sound, what could it possibly be?

524
00:42:18,380 --> 00:42:20,380
Another big question is,

525
00:42:20,380 --> 00:42:24,380
and it's getting in the lines of psychology,

526
00:42:24,380 --> 00:42:30,380
why or how could a person look up at night or in a dusk

527
00:42:30,380 --> 00:42:35,380
or say, even in a daytime and see some of these things that they report?

528
00:42:35,380 --> 00:42:38,380
Right along those lines, we had the same time these pictures were taken out

529
00:42:38,380 --> 00:42:40,380
in love up within two or three days that time.

530
00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:44,380
Two women were driving along in a car and all of a sudden they looked out

531
00:42:44,380 --> 00:42:49,380
over the Texas plains and they saw this object that they described as being top-shaped,

532
00:42:49,380 --> 00:42:52,380
like when these old-fashioned tops were put a string around the pole

533
00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:55,380
and it was silver and it was hovering along over the prairie

534
00:42:56,380 --> 00:43:00,380
and they approached it and as they approached it,

535
00:43:00,380 --> 00:43:02,380
the thing began to take off like that.

536
00:43:02,380 --> 00:43:05,380
Well, we checked on these women and found out

537
00:43:05,380 --> 00:43:08,380
that they were just as reliable as your wives or anybody else.

538
00:43:08,380 --> 00:43:12,380
I mean, they didn't have any reputation of being habitual liars

539
00:43:12,380 --> 00:43:14,380
or stretching stories or anything like that.

540
00:43:14,380 --> 00:43:18,380
They were just good old Texas fire wives or all they were.

541
00:43:18,380 --> 00:43:21,380
And we questioned them, but that's their story.

542
00:43:21,380 --> 00:43:23,380
I mean, they said that's what we saw.

543
00:43:23,380 --> 00:43:24,380
That's what it was.

544
00:43:24,380 --> 00:43:28,380
We're leaving up the Air Force to tell us what we saw.

545
00:43:28,380 --> 00:43:30,380
Well, Thunder, we can't tell them.

546
00:43:30,380 --> 00:43:35,380
Once again, it goes down back to the point how much can people imagine.

547
00:43:35,380 --> 00:43:39,380
At the same time, these love of pictures were taken.

548
00:43:39,380 --> 00:43:41,380
In fact, it's the same night.

549
00:43:41,380 --> 00:43:45,380
A garden's life from a sandy abyss in Albuquerque.

550
00:43:45,380 --> 00:43:48,380
We're sitting out in a backyard and all of a sudden they looked up

551
00:43:48,380 --> 00:43:50,380
and they saw this big dark shape roll over

552
00:43:50,380 --> 00:43:53,380
and they said it was a...

553
00:43:53,380 --> 00:43:56,380
They looked a lot like a flying wing type of aircraft.

554
00:43:56,380 --> 00:43:59,380
And it was down about 150 feet and just scared the dickens out

555
00:43:59,380 --> 00:44:00,380
because it was so low.

556
00:44:00,380 --> 00:44:05,380
And they could see little exhaust flames on the back of the airplane.

557
00:44:05,380 --> 00:44:08,380
Well, we checked them again and once again we found out

558
00:44:08,380 --> 00:44:10,380
that they're just good normal people.

559
00:44:10,380 --> 00:44:14,380
I mean, the guy has been a guard at Sandia for a good number of years

560
00:44:14,380 --> 00:44:16,380
so he's reliable to that extent.

561
00:44:16,380 --> 00:44:22,380
I mean, they don't usually hire psychopathic cases to guard places like Sandia.

562
00:44:22,380 --> 00:44:27,380
And just out of curiosity, we sent these pictures down to that guy.

563
00:44:27,380 --> 00:44:29,380
And the OSI showed him to him.

564
00:44:29,380 --> 00:44:31,380
He said, yeah, I said that's what I saw.

565
00:44:31,380 --> 00:44:37,380
But he said, these little lights are the exhaust stacks that I saw.

566
00:44:37,380 --> 00:44:40,380
And it happened on the same night that these pictures were taken.

567
00:44:40,380 --> 00:44:45,380
Just about two hours before these people saw this thing at Love Up.

568
00:44:45,380 --> 00:44:48,380
So, I mean, it's probably a coincidence.

569
00:44:48,380 --> 00:44:50,380
But again, you can't say it's a coincidence.

570
00:44:50,380 --> 00:44:53,380
I mean, we can't get enough facts to ever pin it down.

571
00:44:53,380 --> 00:44:58,380
But it's one of those things that's just very interesting to work on.

572
00:44:58,380 --> 00:45:00,380
You know, driving nuts after so long in time with them,

573
00:45:00,380 --> 00:45:02,380
we try to keep going.

574
00:45:02,380 --> 00:45:08,380
Well, that's about all that I had.

575
00:45:08,380 --> 00:45:15,380
It varies quite a bit.

576
00:45:15,380 --> 00:45:17,380
Usually high speed.

577
00:45:17,380 --> 00:45:22,380
My high speed, I mean, anything over a thousand miles an hour.

578
00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:26,380
For a while, we thought we had a pin down or a radar people did

579
00:45:26,380 --> 00:45:29,380
because the return always went over the station.

580
00:45:29,380 --> 00:45:32,380
It came in through the ground clutter, practically directly over the station

581
00:45:32,380 --> 00:45:34,380
and went out the other side.

582
00:45:34,380 --> 00:45:39,380
But that was an indication of something I'm not sure

583
00:45:39,380 --> 00:45:42,380
interference in the other station or something like that.

584
00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:45,380
But lately, they haven't been doing that.

585
00:45:45,380 --> 00:45:48,380
I mean, they'll come in to the end of the range

586
00:45:48,380 --> 00:45:50,380
and they'll maybe make a turn and go out.

587
00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:53,380
Now, we had one or just in case of who's real average.

588
00:45:53,380 --> 00:45:57,380
And this GCA operator was sitting there looking at scope

589
00:45:57,380 --> 00:45:59,380
and all of a sudden he saw these two objects come in.

590
00:45:59,380 --> 00:46:02,380
They were coming in about four or five hundred miles an hour.

591
00:46:02,380 --> 00:46:05,380
And at the same time, the C-47 was coming in.

592
00:46:05,380 --> 00:46:07,380
He was going to land this 47.

593
00:46:07,380 --> 00:46:10,380
Well, he knows they were on a collision course, so he called the tower

594
00:46:10,380 --> 00:46:13,380
and said, tell those two unidentified airplanes they're on a collision course

595
00:46:13,380 --> 00:46:15,380
with this 47.

596
00:46:15,380 --> 00:46:18,380
So the tower just called, the tower said there's no airplanes out there.

597
00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:20,380
The radar man said, yes, there is.

598
00:46:20,380 --> 00:46:22,380
The tower just called the blind and said,

599
00:46:22,380 --> 00:46:26,380
you two unidentified airplanes, you're on a collision course with a 47

600
00:46:26,380 --> 00:46:29,380
and just they said that these two returns made a turn.

601
00:46:29,380 --> 00:46:31,380
Now, once again,

602
00:46:31,380 --> 00:46:34,380
and we got caught into the desert, we actually got something.

603
00:46:34,380 --> 00:46:37,380
See, I mean, it's English.

604
00:46:37,380 --> 00:46:42,380
So that's about the only conclusion we can draw.

605
00:46:42,380 --> 00:46:46,380
But that's some of the things we run into.

606
00:46:46,380 --> 00:46:48,380
I mean, we run into a lot of that kind of stuff

607
00:46:48,380 --> 00:46:53,380
where we'll have a lot of small situations

608
00:46:53,380 --> 00:46:55,380
that all go up into a big one.

609
00:46:55,380 --> 00:46:57,380
And it might be just a coincidence.

610
00:46:57,380 --> 00:47:00,380
It might be, we may put our imagination into it unconsciously.

611
00:47:01,380 --> 00:47:03,380
We try to keep away from them.

612
00:47:03,380 --> 00:47:05,380
We try to stay right and straight now.

613
00:47:05,380 --> 00:47:08,380
I mean, we don't want to be influenced either way on this thing.

614
00:47:08,380 --> 00:47:10,380
They may be from Mars, but if they are,

615
00:47:10,380 --> 00:47:12,380
we don't want to think they are.

616
00:47:12,380 --> 00:47:14,380
We don't want to think they're all balloons.

617
00:47:14,380 --> 00:47:16,380
I mean, we try to stay right in the middle of the road.

618
00:47:16,380 --> 00:47:23,380
Now, we had a real interesting one from New Jersey.

619
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:24,380
Run.

620
00:47:24,380 --> 00:47:25,380
Send it in the monolith.

621
00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:26,380
See, I don't understand.

622
00:47:26,380 --> 00:47:28,380
You go to Fort Monolith.

623
00:47:28,380 --> 00:47:29,380
You're not too long ago.

624
00:47:29,380 --> 00:47:32,380
These piles, the T-33, chase something.

625
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:34,380
And just about 10 minutes later,

626
00:47:34,380 --> 00:47:37,380
all the radar stations in that area begin to pick these objects up,

627
00:47:37,380 --> 00:47:39,380
going back and forth all over the skies.

628
00:47:39,380 --> 00:47:40,380
And we thought, well, this is it.

629
00:47:40,380 --> 00:47:42,380
So we tore up there to find out

630
00:47:42,380 --> 00:47:44,380
and what the story sounded real fine.

631
00:47:44,380 --> 00:47:47,380
And T-33 piles saw this great, big disc-shaped thing over there.

632
00:47:47,380 --> 00:47:49,380
And he took out after it and he couldn't catch it.

633
00:47:49,380 --> 00:47:53,380
And then the radar stations begin to pick up these signals

634
00:47:53,380 --> 00:47:56,380
and they were clocking speeds up to 3500 miles an hour

635
00:47:56,380 --> 00:47:57,380
and everything else.

636
00:47:57,380 --> 00:48:01,380
Well, it turned out that the piles had seen a big balloon.

637
00:48:01,380 --> 00:48:03,380
It was larger than normal weather balloon.

638
00:48:03,380 --> 00:48:05,380
It had been launched in Fort Monolith.

639
00:48:05,380 --> 00:48:07,380
And they were a little bit mixed up with their rate of clothing

640
00:48:07,380 --> 00:48:09,380
and stuff like that and had seen a balloon.

641
00:48:09,380 --> 00:48:15,380
And the radar crews, the first radar crew, had picked up a,

642
00:48:15,380 --> 00:48:17,380
probably just an ordinary aircraft.

643
00:48:17,380 --> 00:48:20,380
But they were giving a demonstration to a bunch of kernels.

644
00:48:20,380 --> 00:48:24,380
And the operators got a little bit flustered on the whole thing.

645
00:48:24,380 --> 00:48:26,380
And they couldn't lock in this automatic tracking

646
00:48:26,380 --> 00:48:29,380
so they assumed the thing must be going about 3500 miles an hour.

647
00:48:29,380 --> 00:48:32,380
It turned out the reason they couldn't lock it in

648
00:48:32,380 --> 00:48:35,380
is they were just too excited and got a little bit filed up on their procedures.

649
00:48:35,380 --> 00:48:39,380
And from then on, well, they were picking up weather balloons

650
00:48:39,380 --> 00:48:43,380
with these radar reflectors hanging on and everything else.

651
00:48:43,380 --> 00:48:47,380
And the students, incidentally, turned out they're mostly student radar operators

652
00:48:47,380 --> 00:48:48,380
picking this stuff up.

653
00:48:48,380 --> 00:48:53,380
The headquarters had called in and hadn't explained anything.

654
00:48:53,380 --> 00:48:55,380
They just said, get on your radar scopes

655
00:48:55,380 --> 00:48:58,380
and look for these mysterious objects floating around.

656
00:48:58,380 --> 00:49:01,380
Well, that's all it took for these kids because they saw everything.

657
00:49:01,380 --> 00:49:04,380
Well, at first it appeared to be a very good sight

658
00:49:04,380 --> 00:49:05,380
and just all broke down.

659
00:49:05,380 --> 00:49:06,380
We get enough facts.

660
00:49:06,380 --> 00:49:08,380
Now, maybe they'll all turn out to do that.

661
00:49:08,380 --> 00:49:10,380
But so far, we've gone off a lot of them

662
00:49:10,380 --> 00:49:13,380
that we can't even come close to explaining.

663
00:49:13,380 --> 00:49:15,380
I guess that's about all I had.

664
00:49:15,380 --> 00:49:16,380
You got any questions?

665
00:49:16,380 --> 00:49:21,380
Well, we'd be very happy to discuss any aspect of this whole thing with you folks.

666
00:49:21,380 --> 00:49:23,380
Have you seen yourself anything?

667
00:49:23,380 --> 00:49:24,380
No, sir, I haven't.

668
00:49:24,380 --> 00:49:26,380
How about the thing you saw?

669
00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:28,380
Oh, I mean, I saw something on there.

670
00:49:28,380 --> 00:49:33,380
But it was just a large meteor when these green fireballs were something.

671
00:49:33,380 --> 00:49:37,380
I think it was when these green fireballs, Don Texas.

672
00:49:37,380 --> 00:49:41,380
But that's all that I have ever seen.

673
00:49:41,380 --> 00:49:51,400
I made the Ferrisco repeating some of these points.

674
00:49:52,400 --> 00:50:00,400
One is, Lieutenant Ruppell had mentioned it around 800 cases that we have in our files.

675
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:05,400
We know that that's only a portion of the sightings of the day.

676
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,400
Those are the ones that have managed to be reported to some military base

677
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,400
and then through channels get to us.

678
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,400
We can read local newspapers almost anywhere in the country.

679
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,400
If you read them over a period of time, you'll find stories on these things

680
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,400
that we have not heard of.

681
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:30,400
We've even heard of them in military organizations that have not been reported,

682
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,400
because I think it's almost a case of the airline policy.

683
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,400
I wonder if there isn't something peculiar.

684
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,400
For example, I was talking to some people from Southview the other day

685
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:45,400
and they were telling me about a radar bomb-scoring run of a B-29 out at St. Louis.

686
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:53,400
They were following the B-29 into the initial point.

687
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:58,400
The operator noticed this plane flying or an object.

688
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,400
It was 48,000 feet.

689
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,400
The 29 was 25,000 feet.

690
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,400
He immediately thought, well, that's possible.

691
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,400
I mean, double harmonics or something.

692
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,400
He explained it away in his own mind.

693
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:16,400
Well, then the blood started descending on a collision course

694
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:22,400
and a quick check revealed it was descending in a ray of something like a thousand miles an hour.

695
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:27,400
We got a little more concerned and still thought, well, possibly this is either in the radar

696
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,400
or in some atmospheric condition.

697
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,400
But then when the thing broke off, it made a turn and then another turn

698
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,400
and took the course and disappeared.

699
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,400
They just don't know what it is.

700
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:42,400
And on these radar sightings, you just left pretty much outside.

701
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,400
I mean, you can't really dig in.

702
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,400
You haven't got anything.

703
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:51,400
Because there's so many of them that can be explained as a possibility that it is something

704
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,400
either in the atmosphere or in the set.

705
00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:00,400
We had one good one not too long ago and one of our electronics people pulled out a textbook

706
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:06,400
and, gee, there was a case written up in a textbook, exactly what had been reported to us.

707
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:12,400
A hovering object made a rapid rate of accident and then took off one of the course.

708
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,400
Well, such a thing has occurred apparently because of weather phenomena

709
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,400
been reported pretty thoroughly written up.

710
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,400
So we found that whole area of sightings.

711
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:27,400
I mean, we're just left without any answers.

712
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:37,099
One point that was not brought out is our relationship with Battelle.

713
00:52:37,099 --> 00:52:39,099
Oh, yes, I forgot to mention.

714
00:52:39,099 --> 00:52:42,099
Battelle Memorial is the suit.

715
00:52:42,099 --> 00:52:46,099
They are one of the contractors who do work for us.

716
00:52:46,099 --> 00:52:51,099
They're always like that.

717
00:52:51,099 --> 00:52:56,099
They became interested in this when we pointed out to them one day that

718
00:52:56,099 --> 00:52:59,099
here's an area in which we've had a lot of problems.

719
00:52:59,099 --> 00:53:01,099
And we're looking for help.

720
00:53:01,099 --> 00:53:03,099
We don't know the answers.

721
00:53:04,099 --> 00:53:10,099
So one of the things that they hope to do for us is make available to us

722
00:53:10,099 --> 00:53:13,099
people who are specialists in various areas.

723
00:53:13,099 --> 00:53:19,099
So if we get a case that calls for an astronomer, we can quickly get an astronomer to work on it.

724
00:53:19,099 --> 00:53:25,099
Another thing is possibly a clipping service that will bring in a mass of reports

725
00:53:25,099 --> 00:53:29,099
that we don't have if any of them are worth following up we can.

726
00:53:29,099 --> 00:53:34,099
But our problem, as you've probably seen, is just getting facts.

727
00:53:34,099 --> 00:53:44,099
We don't have enough facts to do anything other than explain that 80% of these roughly are known objects.

728
00:53:44,099 --> 00:53:46,099
That's possible.

729
00:53:46,099 --> 00:53:52,099
As a matter of fact, they're not 80% definitely proven, but say 16 definitely.

730
00:53:52,099 --> 00:53:54,099
I mean, there's no question in our mind.

731
00:53:54,099 --> 00:53:56,099
It was a plane or something else.

732
00:53:56,099 --> 00:54:05,099
Then these are rough figures say 20% that maybe they could have been a plane, a balloon or a media.

733
00:54:05,099 --> 00:54:11,099
And then there's that 20% like the green fireballs and the lights that we just do not have an answer for.

734
00:54:11,099 --> 00:54:17,099
Now one thing that people have suggested, well how about a feasibility study?

735
00:54:17,099 --> 00:54:20,099
A feasibility of what?

736
00:54:20,099 --> 00:54:21,099
The unknown?

737
00:54:21,099 --> 00:54:24,659
We're stuck there.

738
00:54:24,659 --> 00:54:32,659
One of the only intelligence officers in the US have been alerted on this report to everything.

739
00:54:32,659 --> 00:54:34,659
Is the military generally alerted?

740
00:54:34,659 --> 00:54:36,659
Yes.

741
00:54:36,659 --> 00:54:38,659
We should have brought that out earlier.

742
00:54:38,659 --> 00:54:46,659
There is a directive from headquarters US that establishes a reporting procedure.

743
00:54:46,659 --> 00:54:53,659
Now we've felt for a long time like most directives, particularly if there's no activity on it, people forget about it.

744
00:54:53,659 --> 00:54:56,659
We've also felt that it was not a very good one.

745
00:54:56,659 --> 00:54:58,659
It had a lot of weak points in it.

746
00:54:58,659 --> 00:55:00,659
So we've prepared a new directive.

747
00:55:00,659 --> 00:55:10,659
And in the meantime suggested that they go ahead and remind all of these people that there is a reporting procedure set up so that it would bring reports in.

748
00:55:10,659 --> 00:55:14,659
And the new directive has just recently been coordinated.

749
00:55:14,659 --> 00:55:15,659
I believe it has been.

750
00:55:15,659 --> 00:55:17,659
It hasn't gone back a deal by right now.

751
00:55:17,659 --> 00:55:19,659
And it should be out.

752
00:55:19,659 --> 00:55:24,659
Now, Lieutenant Rupel and getting around on these cases, of course, there's a lot of missionary work.

753
00:55:24,659 --> 00:55:25,659
I mean, he heads a base.

754
00:55:25,659 --> 00:55:28,659
I mean, he breathes pretty thoroughly on our problem.

755
00:55:28,659 --> 00:55:33,659
And the place that he's had, I'm sure, well aware of how it's done.

756
00:55:33,659 --> 00:55:37,659
I'm equally sure there are a number of these places that just don't know.

757
00:55:37,659 --> 00:55:39,659
They probably have the directives.

758
00:55:39,659 --> 00:55:46,659
I'm just thinking, my own case, I knew folks are interested in this association, but no.

759
00:55:46,659 --> 00:55:49,659
There's still any official channel there.

760
00:55:49,659 --> 00:55:50,659
Never heard of it.

761
00:55:50,659 --> 00:55:52,659
I can't just throw it in.

762
00:55:52,659 --> 00:55:54,659
How about the ground is a little cold?

763
00:55:54,659 --> 00:55:56,659
I have 100,000 people.

764
00:55:56,659 --> 00:55:58,659
And that's why I asked you now.

765
00:55:58,659 --> 00:55:59,659
And I ain't about it.

766
00:55:59,659 --> 00:56:01,659
They are doing a certain extent.

767
00:56:01,659 --> 00:56:03,659
So we've talked about that quite a bit.

768
00:56:03,659 --> 00:56:07,659
And we don't know whether it's worth alerting those people.

769
00:56:07,659 --> 00:56:09,659
Now, they're not now on a 24-hour basis.

770
00:56:09,659 --> 00:56:12,659
They hope to get them on a 24-hour basis soon.

771
00:56:13,659 --> 00:56:17,659
But we don't know exactly how far they've gone.

772
00:56:17,659 --> 00:56:22,659
And we're afraid maybe if we alert that number of people,

773
00:56:22,659 --> 00:56:24,659
then everybody in the United States can get excited again.

774
00:56:24,659 --> 00:56:28,659
That's the thing we're trying to keep out of this thing as this excitement business.

775
00:56:28,659 --> 00:56:36,659
Now, in two weeks, a week from this coming Friday life is coming out with an article on these objects.

776
00:56:36,659 --> 00:56:38,659
And we've been working closely with life.

777
00:56:38,659 --> 00:56:42,659
And they supposedly are going to print what we've told them to.

778
00:56:42,659 --> 00:56:43,659
I hope they do.

779
00:56:43,659 --> 00:56:45,659
They're going to put it on a factual basis.

780
00:56:45,659 --> 00:56:47,659
I mean, just about like this briefing.

781
00:56:47,659 --> 00:56:50,659
In other words, there may be something to it, but we don't know.

782
00:56:50,659 --> 00:56:58,659
And we feel that that report may tend to take the mysteriousness and hysteria out of the thing

783
00:56:58,659 --> 00:57:04,659
and just get people to give us a few reports in people with good common sense

784
00:57:04,659 --> 00:57:07,659
instead of all these nut letters that we get occasionally.

785
00:57:07,659 --> 00:57:11,659
Another thing, Colonel Churchill referred this newspaper clipping service.

786
00:57:11,659 --> 00:57:15,659
We hope to get that started before this life magazine article comes out.

787
00:57:15,659 --> 00:57:23,659
And keep it going over a set period of a year and see how the peaks in the newspaper publicity correspond

788
00:57:23,659 --> 00:57:26,659
with the peaks in the reports that we get.

789
00:57:26,659 --> 00:57:32,659
We feel that after life comes out, while then several other magazines will undoubtedly pick this stuff up.

790
00:57:32,659 --> 00:57:38,659
A true magazine is supposed to be coming out of an article sometime within the next couple months.

791
00:57:38,659 --> 00:57:40,659
It will be slanted the other way.

792
00:57:40,659 --> 00:57:43,659
It's going to be written by one of these science fiction writers.

793
00:57:43,659 --> 00:57:45,659
And it should give us no idea of trouble.

794
00:57:45,659 --> 00:57:49,659
We haven't been able to get true to cooperate with this at all.

795
00:57:49,659 --> 00:57:50,659
I shouldn't say that.

796
00:57:50,659 --> 00:57:51,659
They probably would.

797
00:57:51,659 --> 00:57:53,659
But they're type of magazine.

798
00:57:53,659 --> 00:57:58,659
I mean, they sell sensational items and they want to play it up.

799
00:57:58,659 --> 00:58:02,659
And then I believe Lucas also thinking about coming out of an article.

800
00:58:02,659 --> 00:58:05,659
So magazines are going to follow life.

801
00:58:05,659 --> 00:58:12,300
And we probably will run into a little bit of flak again on this thing.

802
00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:17,300
Is it unlikely that all of this flak that enables these magazines to have facts,

803
00:58:17,300 --> 00:58:21,300
or they would say, with or just for the sake of being sensational?

804
00:58:21,300 --> 00:58:27,300
They, a life magazine has a lot of information that we do not have on different sightings.

805
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:29,300
They have some very good sightings, too.

806
00:58:29,300 --> 00:58:34,300
I mean, they've called in some pretty important people around the United States.

807
00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:39,300
They were very hesitant to tell you who works for them as their consultants.

808
00:58:39,300 --> 00:58:44,300
But they have got some pretty good sightings that we have never heard of.

809
00:58:44,300 --> 00:58:49,300
And they're going to use those in the article, although they have checked those with us.

810
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:52,300
The two or three old standbys that everybody always plays up,

811
00:58:52,300 --> 00:58:58,300
such as this mantel case down in Kentucky, where this guy got killed chasing one of them supposedly.

812
00:58:58,300 --> 00:59:05,300
No one up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, where the F-51 fought with his thing for 15 minutes.

813
00:59:05,300 --> 00:59:10,300
And a few of those that are outstanding as far as the science fiction writers

814
00:59:10,300 --> 00:59:12,300
are concerned, life is going to leave out.

815
00:59:12,300 --> 00:59:16,300
They're not going to dig those up again and rehash them again.

816
00:59:16,300 --> 00:59:22,300
Was it ever established what caused Mantel's death?

817
00:59:22,300 --> 00:59:28,300
Well, they think, I mean, the official report is, and I tend to believe it,

818
00:59:28,300 --> 00:59:30,300
is that he didn't have any oxygen at all.

819
00:59:30,300 --> 00:59:35,300
And he just climbed up to the past out and then the airplane went into the dive and just tore itself to pieces.

820
00:59:35,300 --> 00:59:39,300
I think that probably what he was chasing is still open to discussion.

821
00:59:39,300 --> 00:59:44,300
It was either probably either Venus or one of these great big sky-hot balloons

822
00:59:44,300 --> 00:59:48,300
that General Mills put up, because there was one lost in the area to time,

823
00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:51,300
although they were never able to say where it was,

824
00:59:51,300 --> 00:59:54,300
except that it was either over Kentucky or Tennessee.

825
00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:56,300
That's all they've been able to pin down.

826
00:59:56,300 --> 00:59:59,300
And they think that that might have been it.

827
00:59:59,300 --> 01:00:02,300
Is this still classified as top secret?

828
01:00:02,300 --> 01:00:05,300
No, sir, it isn't. That's another...

829
01:00:05,300 --> 01:00:10,300
No, we actually, we carried this confidential overall project.

830
01:00:10,300 --> 01:00:17,300
We're trying to get it dropped down or restricted now, because life is going to come out with a lot of material

831
01:00:17,300 --> 01:00:19,300
we've given them that is classified.

832
01:00:19,300 --> 01:00:22,300
There was classified at one time.

833
01:00:22,300 --> 01:00:25,300
The only time this classified top secret was where it came out.

834
01:00:25,300 --> 01:00:27,300
We've been carrying this confidential.

835
01:00:27,300 --> 01:00:33,300
There are some aspects that we'll have to keep classified as secret or maybe higher.

836
01:00:33,300 --> 01:00:38,300
When we start listing air defense radar stations,

837
01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:42,300
possible tie-in with some of our latest developments and things like that.

838
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:44,300
We'll have to keep that classified.

839
01:00:44,300 --> 01:00:47,300
But just the details of the sighting,

840
01:00:47,300 --> 01:00:50,300
we're going to try to declassify too restricted.

841
01:00:50,300 --> 01:00:52,300
Because we've had trouble in the past,

842
01:00:52,300 --> 01:00:55,300
and some newspaper will call up and say,

843
01:00:55,300 --> 01:00:57,300
a big sighting up somewhere.

844
01:00:57,300 --> 01:00:59,300
And we'll say, yes, we've heard about it.

845
01:00:59,300 --> 01:01:00,300
And we'll say, what's the results?

846
01:01:00,300 --> 01:01:02,300
We'll say, well, we can't tell you about that.

847
01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:03,300
It's classified.

848
01:01:03,300 --> 01:01:05,300
For me, they came out with a big story about the Air Force.

849
01:01:05,300 --> 01:01:08,300
She's picked up a spaceship somewhere and they won't tell us about it.

850
01:01:08,300 --> 01:01:10,300
And that's the thing we're trying to get away from.

851
01:01:10,300 --> 01:01:14,300
We don't want to excite anybody on the project.

852
01:01:14,300 --> 01:01:19,300
There is one other area that's classified and that's where we have reports on people.

853
01:01:19,300 --> 01:01:20,300
Yes.

854
01:01:20,300 --> 01:01:24,300
They're background, trying to determine whether or not they're alive or not.

855
01:01:24,300 --> 01:01:30,300
You're running the one interesting little discussion on this classification.

856
01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:36,300
If some people who say, well, now, these could be from Russia, which is true.

857
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:37,300
It could be.

858
01:01:37,300 --> 01:01:42,300
Therefore, we're doing them a great service reporting in our papers.

859
01:01:42,300 --> 01:01:43,300
Very carefully.

860
01:01:43,300 --> 01:01:49,300
They've got plots, which is true.

861
01:01:49,300 --> 01:01:54,300
But we feel that the papers, when they get one, are going to report it.

862
01:01:54,300 --> 01:01:57,300
And then they're going to come to us for what we know on it.

863
01:01:57,300 --> 01:02:00,300
And it's inevitable if the papers pick it up.

864
01:02:00,300 --> 01:02:03,300
So that's one reason we like this reporting channel.

865
01:02:03,300 --> 01:02:09,300
It's established that if anybody excites one, it's not too illogical for somebody

866
01:02:09,300 --> 01:02:12,300
if he sees something in the air to call a nearest Air Force base.

867
01:02:12,300 --> 01:02:14,300
I mean, it's one of the first things we would think of.

868
01:02:14,300 --> 01:02:17,300
Maybe they've got something in the air.

869
01:02:17,300 --> 01:02:24,300
And we have found this is an example of this T-33 case you mentioned.

870
01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:29,300
The reporters were right on hand to discuss this thing with pilots when they landed.

871
01:02:29,300 --> 01:02:33,300
It took pictures of them.

872
01:02:33,300 --> 01:02:37,300
We found out that in the New York area, some paper, I couldn't tell you which one is,

873
01:02:37,300 --> 01:02:39,300
monitors VHF.

874
01:02:39,300 --> 01:02:43,300
Monitor is all air traffic in the area.

875
01:02:43,300 --> 01:02:47,300
And I don't know why they do it, but they do.

876
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:52,300
That's why they picked up that T-33 incident was monitoring air traffic.

877
01:02:52,300 --> 01:02:53,300
I heard two different stories.

878
01:02:53,300 --> 01:02:58,300
One of the newspapers actually has a set up themselves to monitor.

879
01:02:58,300 --> 01:03:04,300
Another one that they have two or three hams in the area alerted to call them if anything happens.

880
01:03:04,300 --> 01:03:08,300
But this T-33 pilot did call a tower and told them about it.

881
01:03:08,300 --> 01:03:12,300
And those papers are right there.

882
01:03:12,300 --> 01:03:15,300
So we found out one thing.

883
01:03:15,300 --> 01:03:20,300
That is the newspapers surpass the Air Force and their intelligence channels.

884
01:03:20,300 --> 01:03:27,300
They are good, I mean they are just no getting around.

885
01:03:27,300 --> 01:03:32,300
So we can't let them join us.

886
01:03:32,300 --> 01:03:34,300
That's about our policy.

887
01:03:34,300 --> 01:03:36,300
Actually, it goes a little further than that.

888
01:03:36,300 --> 01:03:38,300
I mean, it's a wonderful ally.

889
01:03:38,300 --> 01:03:47,300
I think the project, his varied and his handling a lot just through difference in opinion or changes in opinion.

890
01:03:47,300 --> 01:03:49,300
There's been great interest in it.

891
01:03:49,300 --> 01:03:50,300
And then it would fall away.

892
01:03:50,300 --> 01:03:52,300
Not too much interest in great interest.

893
01:03:52,300 --> 01:03:57,300
And that's officially, too, as well as public.

894
01:03:57,300 --> 01:04:08,300
We feel that by going right down the line, taking every case we get and trying to get additional facts and encouraging anybody and everybody to give us information.

895
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:11,300
There are a lot of groups that are interested in this.

896
01:04:11,300 --> 01:04:17,300
I don't know if any of you read the time article a few weeks ago on the Sussex.

897
01:04:17,300 --> 01:04:20,300
It was a group out on the West Coast.

898
01:04:20,300 --> 01:04:24,300
And there's a fair time trying to get all of these cases to get work on.

899
01:04:24,300 --> 01:04:31,300
But we feel that that group, who are quite frank with them, would be very cooperative and help us.

900
01:04:31,300 --> 01:04:34,300
I mean, we're not trying to hide anything. We're trying to get help.

901
01:04:34,300 --> 01:04:43,050
You do have a problem with how far you go publicly but I think possibly this lifetime article.

902
01:04:43,050 --> 01:04:55,239
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