This medium has been declassified in compliance with applicable executive order, statutes, and regulations.
I expect that the speaker will put out approximately this volume and I will now, as before, turn around slowly and address my words to the blackboard.
This I am not doing, but straight into the blackboard, as if I were going to die.
I am then going to turn around slowly again now to face the audience. I am separated from the microphone by a somewhat greater distance as if I were slightly leaning backwards.
Right around the zero, that's the desirable weather. If, for example, we turn the game down, so you see it's just about wide open and I pick everything in the room up.
Let's see how I jump from the end. Now let's see if we play it back. I can't hear you.
There's a red thing already now.
Yeah, there are a few things on the table.
Why don't you say something?
I'll need to start talking.
What?
I couldn't hear you.
I was comparing about 1947. You're possibly familiar with them to a certain extent following the newspaper reports.
The first ones were cited by Kenneth Arnold in June in 1947 out in Idaho.
Now, I'll refer to them as these things because we have no idea what we're dealing with.
The newspapers and radio play them up to a great degree at that time.
And consequently, it introduced a little bit of probably a little bit of mass hysteria or something like that into the problem.
They flared up for about, oh, spasmatically, for about two years and then the things were dying down to a certain extent.
The Air Force took over this project soon after the first sighting because the public demanded an explanation of these objects.
In August of 1949, the Air Force came out with a report, supposedly a final report on this, where they reached a few conclusions.
Now, they had some specialists in certain fields working on this problem.
And you might be interested in knowing who they were.
There was a Dr. A. J. Hyne, an astronomer at Ohio State, Dr. G. Valley of the Scientific Advisory Board.
A Dr. Fitz of the Aero-Medical, I believe he was a psychologist.
A Rain Corporation, Air Weather Service, Cambridge Field Station, and the US Department of Commerce Weather Bureau.
All those people took the reports, I believe they had about 300 reports at that time.
They took the reports and read them over, came up with their conclusions.
All their conclusions varied to a certain extent.
They all agreed that they didn't know exactly what they were, however they were.
Obviously, no direct threat to the United States, so they didn't pay too much more attention to them.
The Air Force came up with several conclusions in that report.
One of them was, it was a mile case of warhead, mass hysteria due to, when we might say, warners or just over.
Some of them were due to psychopathical people, or not something like that, trying to create an excitment or get publicity, or do it pure hoaxes.
And the other one was that they were due to misinterpretation of conventional objects.
Well, since that time, several years has passed, we've been able to go back and review these conclusions a little bit.
We've been able to drop out all except the misinterpretation of conventional objects.
Going back, we have approximately 800 cases now on record.
And only about 2% of those are actual hoaxes or psychopathological people who just don't know what they see.
The misinterpretation of known objects is still, of course, a large factor.
I mean, that could possibly account for all of them.
However, it's a little bit doubtful.
We've gone through these reports and come up with the fact that about 20% are very good reports offered by very reliable people,
and there just absolutely no conclusions can be drawn.
The mass hysteria factor has gone out because the newspapers haven't played this up for the last approximately three years.
There's occasional flories, but nothing to get excited about.
All in still reports continue to come in.
We dropped this project in 1949 as it has a special project in doing this information as regular intelligence material since that time.
We've decided on our last October.
We decided that there was possibly enough material left to reopen this case.
So we, the center appointed a permanent project engineer, which is the project engineer.
And we reviewed all this stuff.
We took all the cases that we had reworked and filed them all in a neat file so we could tell what we had.
We went through and processed indexed all the material.
So we could get an idea of the different factors that were involved in these reports.
We came up with some results.
I won't say they're outstanding results.
We don't know what the results mean, but I'm lucky.
I didn't realize you're going to have such a large audience here.
We didn't bring any slides along.
I don't know whether any unit back in the room see this print.
I'll pass it around and you can get an idea.
This is a plot of the sightings in the United States.
This does not include the...
We have sightings outside the United States, but we're not too worried about those at the present time.
We're more interested in the United States.
I'll explain this a little bit to you since you can't see it.
We have certain areas in the United States where there are concentrations in Dayton and Columbus, Ohio, their concentrations.
This is possible to do two things.
One of them is the fact that the people in that area knew that all the activity in this project was taking place in that area
and consequently they were doing a little bit more reporting.
Another thing is that all the experimental flying was being done around right field.
We still have a lot of trouble with that.
People call it and say, I just saw a great big light board of 5,000 miles an hour.
It turns out it's an airplane carrying a flare or something like that.
We've just regard that concentration.
However, around all the ports in the United States, San Francisco, Los Angeles, the coastal area around New York City and New Orleans, there's concentrations.
Around Los Alamos and the Albuquerque area there's concentrations.
Around white sands there's concentrations and down here it can't put Texas.
Now this can't put Texas, concentration is due to an outbreak of odd lights about two years ago.
We never did determine exactly what the lights were.
They were a special type of report that happened to occur again and we haven't paid too much attention to that.
But the ones around Oak Ridge and the ones around Albuquerque may possibly mean something.
We don't know.
The rest of the reports are pretty well scattered out around the United States.
If you plot these reports up by years, they started in the West Coast, up around in the Northwest, around the Washington, Oregon, Idaho in 1947.
The next year they were... they tended to be on the East Coast to a certain extent.
And from then on, they were just spread out all the United States. There was no pattern.
We've plotted the frequency of these reports again.
You'll see that it doesn't vary too much year from year to year.
This large peak down here, this large peak down here occurred right after the first sighting by this Arnold out in Idaho.
And it was undoubtedly... a lot of it was due to mass hysteria or people wanting to get their names in the paper.
However, you can see it tapered off and it reaches a peak right in...
You see, this is June in July. And every year almost it reaches a peak in there.
It's also a peak to a certain extent here in January. And then again, there's a peak here in December.
Now, there's actually no direct pattern to that, but there's enough of a pattern.
The plants have seated down in your mind. You sort of wonder why this thing should run a cycle like that.
In these two years, 47 and 48, there was a lot of newspaper publicity.
However, in 49 and 50 and 51, there was very little newspaper publicity.
And the reports from 49 and 50 and 51 are mostly from military sources.
The civilians have dropped out because possibly they didn't know how to report this stuff or they weren't interested in it.
The Air Force came out and said there was nothing to it, so they just quit making reports.
However, a military has continued to make reports.
I shouldn't say a military in a few airlines pilots are covering these two years.
They've taken the reported shapes. We have a lot of questions. People say, well, what are people reporting?
So we've broken it down into shapes. In this segment here, there were no shapes reported.
Somebody just called in and wrote a letter that I saw something, so we've had disregard it.
This segment right here represents some type of an astronomical body.
I mean, you could say it was either a bright light in a sky or a streak of light that could have been a meteor.
We've lumped all those together. In this section, our disc or spherical shaped objects.
We've lumped those together because we don't believe that people can tell if they're seeing a disc or a sphere.
Unless they should have to see it both in the bottom view and edge wise to determine this.
So we've lumped those all together. Some of these could be balloons.
I mean, there's no doubt about that. They could be weather balloons. However,
due to our contrary to popular opinion, these things, they are definitely not all balloons.
These are shapes that just report as oval shapes. It's difficult to tell if they are.
Miscellaneous is almost anything. Vapor trails, probably actually were vapor trails of aircraft.
There's one small segment in here, which is only six tenths of 1% of all 800 reports.
And that is reports of groups of lights going through this sky.
And we've had quite a bit of difficulty with those because the reports are usually from pretty good sources.
And they'll see, oh, anywhere from six to 20 lights in a formation going streaking across the sky.
Well, it's almost impossible if that would, that you would find six meteors together.
I understand it's possible to see two of them together that it would appear to be in formation.
But no more than that. Certain percentage, one percent are,
report to be balloons. Now, these are balloons that we've not been able to establish the origin.
In other words, we don't, they're just balloons floating over the United States and they're probably,
meteorological balloons that have gotten loose from some station and have burst when they were supposed to.
Two and a half percent resemble actual aircraft.
We've had quite a bit of a discussion as to whether or not these objects could possibly be some highly developed aircraft type that the Soviets have.
We've almost been able to throw that out because a small percentage of reports that even mention any shape due to aircraft that would resemble aircraft.
This percentage here are reported to be rockets or cigar shaped objects.
Now, once again, we've gone into that quite thoroughly and have found it.
And it's common knowledge that any bright light traveling through the air will burn an image in your eye and will,
you'll have some persistence there and it will appear to be elongated when actually it's just a round source of light.
That's some of the shapes that we've had.
Now, now to getting back to this disc or spherical shaped objects, these things are always silent.
I mean, if we want to assume that this object we're dealing with is a dish shape thing.
These are always silent. They're usually highly maneuverable.
Although lately, the reports that have been coming in have neglected to put this 90 degree turn business and they just go over at a great rate of speed.
But the fact that they're silent is quite interesting because we have no knowledge of any type of power plant that would be completely silent.
Now, these are the types of people that send in our reports.
This segment here are civilians.
And most of these reports came in when a project was first initiated back in 1947-48.
This black segment here are reports from military sources.
There, we've put them in as just ground officers, not usually not flying officers, or at least reports are not made from the air.
We have a small segment here of radar returns that we've been unable to explain.
This section right here are reports from civilian pilots who are airborne at the time of sighting.
This segment in here, especially as the one we're very interested in, they're reports from airline pilots, from tower operators, and balloon observers.
Now, these balloon observers are normally people like the General Mills crews that launch these highlights and balloons.
And here we have technically trained personnel, such as scientists, engineers, and so forth.
This segment, as I said, is the ones that we're very much interested in.
Now, airline pilots, we consider very reliable, because they're very...
Well, they don't like to stick their neck out and make one, as reports and lists are absolutely sure they saw something.
They're received from very unfavorable publicity during this last rash of reports.
So the first one, I should say, in 47 and 48 and 18, absolutely refused to give us reports, unless they're completely sold that they saw something.
Well, I've talked to quite a few of the pilots, and one of them made a statement that if he looked out his window and saw a V2 rocket or something like that flying wingtip to wingtip with him over Spokane, he wouldn't tell anybody about it.
I mean, he never report the airports because nobody, because they just say it was crazy and probably grounding.
So that's the big difficulty we have in getting reports from airline pilots.
We do hear through the great vignette that they see an awful lot of things that they don't report, especially over in the Near East Iran and Middle East.
They should say, Iran, Palestine, Egypt, and those runs.
Now, we haven't been able to pin that down as fact. That's just a rumor that we've picked up in talking to other airline pilots who've heard other airlines pilots say that.
But we've never been able to pin it down. However, it would be very interesting to find out and we're making attempts, although we've run up against a lot of trouble because they said the pilots just don't want publicity and they won't make those reports.
This segment in here have been reported by Air Force pilots and aerial sightings. A lot of these have been balloons.
We've had a lot of trouble with the balloons in it. A pilot meeting of balloon in the air isn't familiar with what that balloon is going to do.
I mean, he's familiar with meeting another airplane and he's already made up his mind as to what the rate of closure should be and different things like that.
Yo, usually assume that when he meets a balloon instead of a balloon, it's some object about 30 or 40 feet in diameter and judging the rate of closure, he assumes it's going at a very terrific speed.
But we've been able, in some cases, to actually show how that pilot was misled and that it was actually a balloon.
However, we don't try to say that everything was a balloon. In other words, if a balloon was launched in the area,
we try to definitely pin that down. We can get the time to launch the balloon, the rate of a cent, the winds are lost.
We can plot out the path of that balloon and plot out the pilot's path and show by various lines of sight how he actually did see the balloon.
In the past, it's been a practice to say, well, there was a balloon launch within 100 miles, consequently the pilot must have seen the balloon.
We don't want to try that because it's, well, we just want to have more proof before we say that it's a balloon.
And the air force has gotten into a lot of trouble in the past by very loosely tying up these balloons with the sightings.
We have some photographs of these objects that we have quite a few photographs, I should say.
A lot of them are definitely either hoaxes or else they're flaws in the negative and the people that have found this grin have looked at it and said,
I took a picture of the sky and I didn't see this flying saucer although here's a picture of it and I'll send it in to us.
It's not too difficult to examine the embossed into a microscope and find out that the image is due to an imperfection in the negative.
However, we have a few photographs that are very difficult to evaluate.
This is one of them right here. It was taken in Phoenix, Arizona on the 7th of July 1947.
This has been hinged around quite a bit and there's a little bit of doubt as to whether or not this was purposely faked but we've never been able to prove it.
This picture is probably the most interesting one we've ever received, mainly because we went into the background of this thing a lot more.
This was taken in Lubbock, Texas last September. Now this Lubbock case is probably the most interesting one.
The whole case is the most interesting one we've ever had.
These five college professors from Texas Tech were sitting out in the backyard one evening and I think it was in August. It's August 25th.
They hadn't been discussing meat ears so they were sitting there looking up in the sky and all of a sudden this bunch of lights were in over.
So one of them looked at each other and said, what was that? Nobody seemed to know.
About a half an hour later while they were still discussing the lights and they said they wished something like that would go over again and it did.
So all together in a period of five or six nights they observed 12 of these things that went over.
Well they assumed that it was some kind of a missile that the Air Force had been developing and being nosy they thought they'd find out what this...
Well they reached this conclusion after they saw the first two that they'd find out what these missiles were.
So they set up their own measuring crewed measuring systems.
They were able to set up or measure the angles on the houses and things in their backyard so they could tell like angles thing went through and they tied it with a stopwatch.
They also set up a baseline 90 degrees to the path and incidentally these things always came over the same path and it roughly the same time every night so they knew about what was going on.
They set up this baseline and got each end with two way radios and some homemade, you might call them field lights or measuring angle measuring devices and try to get an allot to the way we're unsuccessful on that.
However they did get their angular measurement across the sky and it came out to be 30 degrees per second.
That's the only measurement we've got on these things.
We didn't hear about it till about a month after it happened and I went down and spent quite a bit of time with these people.
At first we thought it was just one big hoax that they were just out to get some publicity but on investigating these people and talking to them.
So we thought out that there was this professor who was headed the physics department of Texas Tech, a gentleman who was headed the petroleum engineering department of Texas Tech,
a gentleman who had spent the last five years in Alaska studying in Aurora and a doctor of mathematics and they had an astronomer who didn't see these although he was in on the investigation.
Well after they found out the Air Force was interested in it, they took an entirely different view.
I mean they found out that it wasn't one of our missiles and they began to wonder what it was but the thing had happened and it was finished and they couldn't get any more information for us.
Now these pictures, well incidentally before that they put a couple pieces in a local newspaper to try to determine who else had seen these things.
And they put their names in the paper so that people could write to them and say I saw or I didn't see it and they got a lot of publicity.
Consequently everybody in Lubbock, Texas was sitting on the night waiting for these things to go over and a college freshman at Texas Tech had his camera ready when they were in 1990.
And this is the picture that he got.
Now these are, this is one formation and one over and this is another formation.
His story is that he saw one go over and all of a sudden don't even want to try to get a picture. He was a fairly good amateur photographer.
He took these with a code act 35. He shot them a tenth of a second at 35 on plus the next film.
He tracked them and consequently we don't know that this blur is due to the movement of the object or the movement of his camera since he shot them on a tenth of a second.
This is the first formation and one over and this is the second formation.
Now we've tried every way that we know of to prove that these pictures are fake.
I've talked to the kid and in fact I talked to him twice.
We've had OSI talk to him about three times in the final.
Last time they got him alone and they said now look this will let you back out on this if you want it.
We'll never tell anybody as far as the newspapers concerned and everybody who sold these pictures too.
They're really good photos but if you'll just confess the OSI or I will drop it.
But he said no, he said these are pictures of something that flew over Lubbock, Texas on.
Well these had to be taken on the 31st of August.
He said I don't know what they are but he said I took the pictures and that's all I know.
And he signed a sworn statement for us so he had to drop it right there.
I mean we've got no way to answer.
This picture just checked the observations as far as...
No sir, I was going to just mention that.
The college professors said that these pictures are fake.
I mean they won't believe them at all.
I say the things that they saw, they know are too dim to ever take a picture of.
Now we cross checked with the kid on that and he said well he said that's right.
He said after I took these pictures I didn't develop them for two days
because he said I just thought my own mind that I wouldn't even have an image because they were...
What I saw was I thought was too dim to take a picture of but I just took a chance.
So he took those pictures.
I finally developed them and that's what he came out with.
I believe he got $8 for the original set of prints from a newspaper.
We had those prints over the photo.
I have an ink checked him out.
I mean they are an actual image.
There's no doubt about that.
He could have taken a black sheet of paper and just punched holes in it and faked them very easily
but he swears up and down.
He didn't do that.
These things under a microscope show that the relative position of these things vary.
Just a little bit in each picture.
It was doubtful if he took a piece of cardboard and just punched holes.
If he would be smart enough to vary the position of the hole in each exposure
he'd probably just taken four shots the same thing and maybe move his camera
to give him a little appearance of motion here.
But the actual exposures or images are moved just a little bit in each exposure.
Now again that could come from the fact that maybe he tipped his paper as he took the picture
but we don't know.
We've never been able to prove that they were fakes.
The density on the negative compares to the density of a bright star.
In other words we used the same exposure in the same film and went out and took a couple pictures
from bright planets and it's the density of the negative.
It's just a little bit more than that of a bright planet at night.
So that's all we know about it.
We haven't been able to tell.
Have you been able to get two sets of lights in some cases other than a man?
No sir we haven't.
We asked him about that and he said he took the pictures.
It looked like a straight line.
He didn't notice two different formations.
Now I always hesitate to tell this because it could again be one big coincidence.
But if you plot those points on a piece of, I mean a large one on a piece of graph paper
and plot them out exactly, you'll see that as the consecutive frames,
one raw lights the back row will say moves up to the first raw and then it moves on ahead in the third picture.
Now that doesn't make sense at all because the fact that there are two different formations he took.
The second row, the same as the first row.
Yes sir.
I had the plot if you've been seeing a little later.
We haven't been able to reach any conclusions at all.
There's only two possibilities that we can think of.
Here are the plots in those.
Only two possibilities that we can think of.
One of them is that it's still one great big hoax that the college professor just decided to see how much they can fool people in love with Texas
and they planted these pictures with the kid.
The other thing is that there was no one that there was a duck flight on an area at the time.
That the ducks were flying across love.
We tried and the people in love tried to see whether or not you could take a picture of ducks at night
just from the reflection of the city lights and that's impossible.
So if these pictures are true, are not fakes or then these pictures are not in ducks.
We'll put it that way.
The college professors won't believe the ducks story at all.
They say those were not ducks.
If they were ducks, they'd have to be at such and such a height to give that 30 degrees per second if they were that low.
The fact that it comes out to be about 75 to 80 feet.
The ducks would have to be that low to be flying 60 miles an hour and go through that angle.
Certain time.
They say they are not ducks.
That's the only possibility we have or the only idea of what they could be.
They might be ducks reflecting the city lights.
Although it's still hard to believe that because just the wall of circumstance, it just doesn't sound like ducks.
A lot of people in Alabama who are looking for these objects on these nights, did see ducks.
And when we were down, they'd call us up and they'd say, I know what these lights are.
They're ducks because I saw them and I could see the wings flapping and I could hear them honking and I could see their next sticking out in here.
Wasting our good taxpayers money coming down here talking about it because they were ducks.
But once again, there's about half the people that saw all these objects again said they were not ducks because they said,
we've lived in Lubbock all our life and we've seen ducks for the last 30 years and those were not ducks.
So we're up against a blank wall on this one case.
Now we've reached several general, I shouldn't say reached any conclusions.
There's two or three general facts about all of the sightings, overall collection of sightings that we have.
One of them is that on our good sightings is absolutely no noise.
Every report is connected with these objects, no matter how low they are.
They may be reported just being specks in the sky or downstriolary low and there's absolutely no noise reported.
And once again, we don't know of any kind of a propulsion system that would do that.
I mean, everything that we know of has some type of noise connected with it.
Another thing is we've had a lot of radar returns, but we have never had a visual sighting linked up with the radar return.
We've had two or three reports of that, but we've never been able to pin them down enough and get enough facts about them to make sure that they were both looking at the same thing.
They've had a project on this down at Hollumman.
They've been very much interested in it because they've been seeing it compared on a comparative basis,
more of these things around the Hollum and the White Sands area.
They did track something down there with their synths, the oil lights.
They don't know what it is, and it could possibly be a slow moving day like media.
Now I'm not an astronomer, but I understand such things exist.
They got pictures of it and they were able to track it.
They saw about five or six of these things at once.
It was right after they launched a missile and they had their Scania synth oil lights pointed up in the air
and they saw these four or five things right behind a missile and they got the word to swing over on those and forget the missile.
And they're a little bit doubtful as to whether or not all stations track the same object.
So consequently their readings are a little bit off, but they did come up with an outlet to reading about 150,000 feet.
The speed was very great.
They came up with speed of about 3500 miles an hour.
But again, they won't back that up because they aren't sure of the conditions that these readings were made under.
That's the only time we've ever come really close to getting any accurate data on these things.
And I wanted to say again that it could be that it was a media in a daytime.
Now they have another type of phenomenon or object or something floating around down that area.
And that's these green fireballs.
I don't know if you've been reading about that in a paper, but there's a doctor.
Lincoln La Paz down in Albuquerque, the University of New Mexico has been making a big deal out of these green fireballs.
They appear to be similar to a media, except that they have a different flat trajectory.
They're reported to be a brilliant greenish blue color.
And they don't explode.
I mean, they appear to be very low about a third or a fourth of the size of a full moon.
And they're very low, and they just go out like that.
They don't explode.
Now Dr. La Paz's theory on this thing is that if it's a normal media,
there should be a terrific explosion because of the size of these things.
It indicates that they're down low on the atmosphere.
And there should be a terrific explosion when they're going to get down low enough to explode.
Again, we don't know what they are.
I mean, they actually exist.
There's no doubt about it.
I mean, it's not anybody's imagination because they've been reported by,
well, Dr. La Paz himself has seen one.
And we've had some very fine reports.
And they all follow the same path.
There's a definite flat trajectory right across the well parallel to the Earth's surface.
They go out with no explosion and they're a brilliant green.
Now, airline pilots have seen them.
And maybe if they meet them head on or something like that,
they'll rank the airliner up and just about toss everybody out of seats
because they think they're going to have a head-on collision with this, whatever it would be.
Now, Cambridge labs have been working on that for two years.
And they came up with no conclusions whatsoever as to what there might be.
So I understand that we're going to take it over again and see if we can possibly come up with some idea.
Now, we've talked to Dr. Kaplan's hypothesis ideas that they come from Russia.
He said that using some kind of a self-destruction missile
and they're zeroing in on Los Alamos.
Now, that's a good story.
I mean, it sounds really exciting.
And there's a possibility.
I mean, we can't say that it isn't because we don't know what it is.
We've talked to Dr. Kaplan quite a bit on his subject,
probably knowing from the University of California.
He thinks that there are either some kind of possibly a new meteor that we are not familiar with
or some phenomena that's related to the aurora.
He claims that he can duplicate this color in his lab.
And I'm not sure of just exactly how he does it.
I believe he uses...
Well, I don't know. I won't say I've gotten a report.
But I don't want to quote something I don't know about.
But anyway, he can duplicate this color.
And he believes that that's what it is.
Now, as I say that is a definite division of these things.
I mean, they definitely exist.
And our problem is to find out, really find out what they are.
If there's some kind of phenomena, then we can turn over to the astronomers
and let them take it.
If they should have to come from Russia,
then we'd better start finding out what they're trying to do on.
How many of these screenlights have worked to have?
We have quite a few, sir.
I hate to say.
I mean, I couldn't take exactly a number.
But they started out, I believe in 49.
There was a big outbreak of them in 49.
And they seemed to appear in January or in December in January.
In that period between the years.
And they coincide with a meteor shower.
It occurs that time, I don't remember the name it is.
But for a long time, they tried to tie them in with that meteor shower.
But just recently, now, within the last year,
they began to occur more over the whole year instead of coming at one time.
OSI, Dr. Lepoth, worked for OSI in 49 on these.
And they tried to come up with a conclusion they couldn't.
They've also spent a lot of time trying to find any fragments.
And have never been successful.
I mean, they've been able to triangulate these things
and get a heck of a lot of reports on people who've seen them,
or seen one of them.
And then work their triangulation like they do in large meteors.
But they've never been able to find any parts.
They want us the fires to pick up, put a dust collector on a B-29
and try to fly through the area right after these things occurred.
Try to pick up any dust that they might have left in the upper atmosphere
but they didn't find anything at all.
It would indicate that anything unusual is going on.
So we're up against a stone wall on these things too.
I mean, all we've got just people's ideas.
We've got no proof as to what they actually may be.
Now, we've got one of our approaches on this thing
is going to be the use of diffraction ratings on cameras.
This is Dr. Kampland's idea.
He says that we can, I should say he says,
he knows that we can take a very extensive camera
and put a diffraction rating on it
and give them to these guards around Sandia and White Sands
and all these places where the guards are outdoors 24 hours a day.
And every time they see something that's unusual,
just point the camera in and take a picture.
And he says that he can take the reading
and match him up either by knowing objects
or match him up in his lab and tell us
what the composition is of this object
that's emitting his light.
Now, we haven't just strictly in the planning stage.
Now, we haven't done very much
except Dr. Kampland is now trying to figure out the cheapest camera
that he can build for us and the most rugged cameras
so these guards can throw it around
and still we'll get some decent pictures of these objects.
Another thing that we've done is recently
we've briefed Air Defense Command on this whole project
and have got their cooperation with their radar scope cameras.
As I mentioned before, we have had quite a few unknown radar returns.
These things are the Air Defense Command radars
tracked objects going anywhere from 1,000 up to about 3,500 miles an hour.
We've never been able to determine, however,
that these weren't malfunctions in a radar set
or do this some type of atmospheric phenomena.
We've tried to get the weather charts
at the time, or weather conditions,
at the time this phenomena has occurred
and trying to correlate that data and show
that do this certain type of weather condition
that they had this type of return.
Now, we haven't had too much luck on that angle.
So now we're going to try to get radar scope cameras
and get pictures of this stuff, and then we'll know.
And before we've just had the radar observers' interpretation
of what he saw in his scope,
we think that with pictures, probably we can do a little bit more with this.
Another step further than that,
and we haven't done anything on this except talk about,
and it may get into the point where we're going to do this,
and that is try to put in a long focal length camera,
and try to match a long focal length camera
with the radar spinner.
So whenever this radar operator gets a return,
all you have to do is poke a button,
and this camera will take a picture of the area
this guy that the radar spinner is pointing at.
And if we get that far,
and if we get a funny return, we'll say,
and usually return a scope,
and if we get an image, no matter how big the image is,
on a photographic plater on a film at the same time,
well then we can say that this radar operator was actually picking up something.
I mean, that would be a great help to us now,
because we don't know for sure if we're picking anything up.
But that's the next step,
and it's still in the planning,
or even in the talking stage right now.
That's about the main thing we're going to try to do,
as far as future plans is concerned.
We want to try to get some concrete data
to say that these things exist.
Up to present time, we've got no real proof that anything even exists.
The only thing we've got are reports from very reliable people
that do have a lot of details in them,
but the details aren't the kind that we want.
I mean, they don't give us enough data as to the possible performance
or anything else that we might need on these objects.
The official Air Force viewpoint is that we've got enough good reports
from reliable people to be interested in this.
We can't back up any of these books by Sculler Keo
and say that we know that they're from Venus
or that we know they're from Russia,
or that we even know they exist.
I mean, there's a possibility that everything that's being reported
is as a balloon, or as a mere, or ducks,
or anything you can think of that somebody just saw them from an odd angle
or under odd lighting conditions
and they looked like something else.
But the present time, we have enough faith in these people
who have been turning into reports to say that we don't exactly believe that.
I mean, we're going to have to get more proof before we can say
that everything that's being seen is some known object
just viewed under different circumstances.
I could go on for a long time telling you about the good reports we've had.
I'd say about 20% of the 800 or 900 reports
that we now have just cannot be explained.
I mean, you can't say that looks like them.
You can't say that that could be a balloon
if there is a balloon in the area because it just doesn't fly up.
And most of these people have made these reports
are well-established airline pilots.
I mean, old pilots who've had a lot of flying time.
The people have released these general mills balloons
have seen something.
The people at white sands have seen very odd things.
It's Dr. Lapaz himself has seen a couple things floating over the mountains down to Mexico
and he couldn't explain.
We've got about 20% of our reports are like that.
We can't go up to them and say, now, this can't be your nuts.
That would be our only answer on those.
You're just crazy.
But you can't go up to anybody and tell them that.
They've seen something and we don't know what it is.
Now, well, some of the big questions that enter our mind on this
is one, the no sound business.
If it actually exists and there's no,
there's some type of propulsion,
but there's no sound, what could it possibly be?
Another big question is,
and it's getting in the lines of psychology,
why or how could a person look up at night or in a dusk
or say, even in a daytime and see some of these things that they report?
Right along those lines, we had the same time these pictures were taken out
in love up within two or three days that time.
Two women were driving along in a car and all of a sudden they looked out
over the Texas plains and they saw this object that they described as being top-shaped,
like when these old-fashioned tops were put a string around the pole
and it was silver and it was hovering along over the prairie
and they approached it and as they approached it,
the thing began to take off like that.
Well, we checked on these women and found out
that they were just as reliable as your wives or anybody else.
I mean, they didn't have any reputation of being habitual liars
or stretching stories or anything like that.
They were just good old Texas fire wives or all they were.
And we questioned them, but that's their story.
I mean, they said that's what we saw.
That's what it was.
We're leaving up the Air Force to tell us what we saw.
Well, Thunder, we can't tell them.
Once again, it goes down back to the point how much can people imagine.
At the same time, these love of pictures were taken.
In fact, it's the same night.
A garden's life from a sandy abyss in Albuquerque.
We're sitting out in a backyard and all of a sudden they looked up
and they saw this big dark shape roll over
and they said it was a...
They looked a lot like a flying wing type of aircraft.
And it was down about 150 feet and just scared the dickens out
because it was so low.
And they could see little exhaust flames on the back of the airplane.
Well, we checked them again and once again we found out
that they're just good normal people.
I mean, the guy has been a guard at Sandia for a good number of years
so he's reliable to that extent.
I mean, they don't usually hire psychopathic cases to guard places like Sandia.
And just out of curiosity, we sent these pictures down to that guy.
And the OSI showed him to him.
He said, yeah, I said that's what I saw.
But he said, these little lights are the exhaust stacks that I saw.
And it happened on the same night that these pictures were taken.
Just about two hours before these people saw this thing at Love Up.
So, I mean, it's probably a coincidence.
But again, you can't say it's a coincidence.
I mean, we can't get enough facts to ever pin it down.
But it's one of those things that's just very interesting to work on.
You know, driving nuts after so long in time with them,
we try to keep going.
Well, that's about all that I had.
It varies quite a bit.
Usually high speed.
My high speed, I mean, anything over a thousand miles an hour.
For a while, we thought we had a pin down or a radar people did
because the return always went over the station.
It came in through the ground clutter, practically directly over the station
and went out the other side.
But that was an indication of something I'm not sure
interference in the other station or something like that.
But lately, they haven't been doing that.
I mean, they'll come in to the end of the range
and they'll maybe make a turn and go out.
Now, we had one or just in case of who's real average.
And this GCA operator was sitting there looking at scope
and all of a sudden he saw these two objects come in.
They were coming in about four or five hundred miles an hour.
And at the same time, the C-47 was coming in.
He was going to land this 47.
Well, he knows they were on a collision course, so he called the tower
and said, tell those two unidentified airplanes they're on a collision course
with this 47.
So the tower just called, the tower said there's no airplanes out there.
The radar man said, yes, there is.
The tower just called the blind and said,
you two unidentified airplanes, you're on a collision course with a 47
and just they said that these two returns made a turn.
Now, once again,
and we got caught into the desert, we actually got something.
See, I mean, it's English.
So that's about the only conclusion we can draw.
But that's some of the things we run into.
I mean, we run into a lot of that kind of stuff
where we'll have a lot of small situations
that all go up into a big one.
And it might be just a coincidence.
It might be, we may put our imagination into it unconsciously.
We try to keep away from them.
We try to stay right and straight now.
I mean, we don't want to be influenced either way on this thing.
They may be from Mars, but if they are,
we don't want to think they are.
We don't want to think they're all balloons.
I mean, we try to stay right in the middle of the road.
Now, we had a real interesting one from New Jersey.
Run.
Send it in the monolith.
See, I don't understand.
You go to Fort Monolith.
You're not too long ago.
These piles, the T-33, chase something.
And just about 10 minutes later,
all the radar stations in that area begin to pick these objects up,
going back and forth all over the skies.
And we thought, well, this is it.
So we tore up there to find out
and what the story sounded real fine.
And T-33 piles saw this great, big disc-shaped thing over there.
And he took out after it and he couldn't catch it.
And then the radar stations begin to pick up these signals
and they were clocking speeds up to 3500 miles an hour
and everything else.
Well, it turned out that the piles had seen a big balloon.
It was larger than normal weather balloon.
It had been launched in Fort Monolith.
And they were a little bit mixed up with their rate of clothing
and stuff like that and had seen a balloon.
And the radar crews, the first radar crew, had picked up a,
probably just an ordinary aircraft.
But they were giving a demonstration to a bunch of kernels.
And the operators got a little bit flustered on the whole thing.
And they couldn't lock in this automatic tracking
so they assumed the thing must be going about 3500 miles an hour.
It turned out the reason they couldn't lock it in
is they were just too excited and got a little bit filed up on their procedures.
And from then on, well, they were picking up weather balloons
with these radar reflectors hanging on and everything else.
And the students, incidentally, turned out they're mostly student radar operators
picking this stuff up.
The headquarters had called in and hadn't explained anything.
They just said, get on your radar scopes
and look for these mysterious objects floating around.
Well, that's all it took for these kids because they saw everything.
Well, at first it appeared to be a very good sight
and just all broke down.
We get enough facts.
Now, maybe they'll all turn out to do that.
But so far, we've gone off a lot of them
that we can't even come close to explaining.
I guess that's about all I had.
You got any questions?
Well, we'd be very happy to discuss any aspect of this whole thing with you folks.
Have you seen yourself anything?
No, sir, I haven't.
How about the thing you saw?
Oh, I mean, I saw something on there.
But it was just a large meteor when these green fireballs were something.
I think it was when these green fireballs, Don Texas.
But that's all that I have ever seen.
I made the Ferrisco repeating some of these points.
One is, Lieutenant Ruppell had mentioned it around 800 cases that we have in our files.
We know that that's only a portion of the sightings of the day.
Those are the ones that have managed to be reported to some military base
and then through channels get to us.
We can read local newspapers almost anywhere in the country.
If you read them over a period of time, you'll find stories on these things
that we have not heard of.
We've even heard of them in military organizations that have not been reported,
because I think it's almost a case of the airline policy.
I wonder if there isn't something peculiar.
For example, I was talking to some people from Southview the other day
and they were telling me about a radar bomb-scoring run of a B-29 out at St. Louis.
They were following the B-29 into the initial point.
The operator noticed this plane flying or an object.
It was 48,000 feet.
The 29 was 25,000 feet.
He immediately thought, well, that's possible.
I mean, double harmonics or something.
He explained it away in his own mind.
Well, then the blood started descending on a collision course
and a quick check revealed it was descending in a ray of something like a thousand miles an hour.
We got a little more concerned and still thought, well, possibly this is either in the radar
or in some atmospheric condition.
But then when the thing broke off, it made a turn and then another turn
and took the course and disappeared.
They just don't know what it is.
And on these radar sightings, you just left pretty much outside.
I mean, you can't really dig in.
You haven't got anything.
Because there's so many of them that can be explained as a possibility that it is something
either in the atmosphere or in the set.
We had one good one not too long ago and one of our electronics people pulled out a textbook
and, gee, there was a case written up in a textbook, exactly what had been reported to us.
A hovering object made a rapid rate of accident and then took off one of the course.
Well, such a thing has occurred apparently because of weather phenomena
been reported pretty thoroughly written up.
So we found that whole area of sightings.
I mean, we're just left without any answers.
One point that was not brought out is our relationship with Battelle.
Oh, yes, I forgot to mention.
Battelle Memorial is the suit.
They are one of the contractors who do work for us.
They're always like that.
They became interested in this when we pointed out to them one day that
here's an area in which we've had a lot of problems.
And we're looking for help.
We don't know the answers.
So one of the things that they hope to do for us is make available to us
people who are specialists in various areas.
So if we get a case that calls for an astronomer, we can quickly get an astronomer to work on it.
Another thing is possibly a clipping service that will bring in a mass of reports
that we don't have if any of them are worth following up we can.
But our problem, as you've probably seen, is just getting facts.
We don't have enough facts to do anything other than explain that 80% of these roughly are known objects.
That's possible.
As a matter of fact, they're not 80% definitely proven, but say 16 definitely.
I mean, there's no question in our mind.
It was a plane or something else.
Then these are rough figures say 20% that maybe they could have been a plane, a balloon or a media.
And then there's that 20% like the green fireballs and the lights that we just do not have an answer for.
Now one thing that people have suggested, well how about a feasibility study?
A feasibility of what?
The unknown?
We're stuck there.
One of the only intelligence officers in the US have been alerted on this report to everything.
Is the military generally alerted?
Yes.
We should have brought that out earlier.
There is a directive from headquarters US that establishes a reporting procedure.
Now we've felt for a long time like most directives, particularly if there's no activity on it, people forget about it.
We've also felt that it was not a very good one.
It had a lot of weak points in it.
So we've prepared a new directive.
And in the meantime suggested that they go ahead and remind all of these people that there is a reporting procedure set up so that it would bring reports in.
And the new directive has just recently been coordinated.
I believe it has been.
It hasn't gone back a deal by right now.
And it should be out.
Now, Lieutenant Rupel and getting around on these cases, of course, there's a lot of missionary work.
I mean, he heads a base.
I mean, he breathes pretty thoroughly on our problem.
And the place that he's had, I'm sure, well aware of how it's done.
I'm equally sure there are a number of these places that just don't know.
They probably have the directives.
I'm just thinking, my own case, I knew folks are interested in this association, but no.
There's still any official channel there.
Never heard of it.
I can't just throw it in.
How about the ground is a little cold?
I have 100,000 people.
And that's why I asked you now.
And I ain't about it.
They are doing a certain extent.
So we've talked about that quite a bit.
And we don't know whether it's worth alerting those people.
Now, they're not now on a 24-hour basis.
They hope to get them on a 24-hour basis soon.
But we don't know exactly how far they've gone.
And we're afraid maybe if we alert that number of people,
then everybody in the United States can get excited again.
That's the thing we're trying to keep out of this thing as this excitement business.
Now, in two weeks, a week from this coming Friday life is coming out with an article on these objects.
And we've been working closely with life.
And they supposedly are going to print what we've told them to.
I hope they do.
They're going to put it on a factual basis.
I mean, just about like this briefing.
In other words, there may be something to it, but we don't know.
And we feel that that report may tend to take the mysteriousness and hysteria out of the thing
and just get people to give us a few reports in people with good common sense
instead of all these nut letters that we get occasionally.
Another thing, Colonel Churchill referred this newspaper clipping service.
We hope to get that started before this life magazine article comes out.
And keep it going over a set period of a year and see how the peaks in the newspaper publicity correspond
with the peaks in the reports that we get.
We feel that after life comes out, while then several other magazines will undoubtedly pick this stuff up.
A true magazine is supposed to be coming out of an article sometime within the next couple months.
It will be slanted the other way.
It's going to be written by one of these science fiction writers.
And it should give us no idea of trouble.
We haven't been able to get true to cooperate with this at all.
I shouldn't say that.
They probably would.
But they're type of magazine.
I mean, they sell sensational items and they want to play it up.
And then I believe Lucas also thinking about coming out of an article.
So magazines are going to follow life.
And we probably will run into a little bit of flak again on this thing.
Is it unlikely that all of this flak that enables these magazines to have facts,
or they would say, with or just for the sake of being sensational?
They, a life magazine has a lot of information that we do not have on different sightings.
They have some very good sightings, too.
I mean, they've called in some pretty important people around the United States.
They were very hesitant to tell you who works for them as their consultants.
But they have got some pretty good sightings that we have never heard of.
And they're going to use those in the article, although they have checked those with us.
The two or three old standbys that everybody always plays up,
such as this mantel case down in Kentucky, where this guy got killed chasing one of them supposedly.
No one up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, where the F-51 fought with his thing for 15 minutes.
And a few of those that are outstanding as far as the science fiction writers
are concerned, life is going to leave out.
They're not going to dig those up again and rehash them again.
Was it ever established what caused Mantel's death?
Well, they think, I mean, the official report is, and I tend to believe it,
is that he didn't have any oxygen at all.
And he just climbed up to the past out and then the airplane went into the dive and just tore itself to pieces.
I think that probably what he was chasing is still open to discussion.
It was either probably either Venus or one of these great big sky-hot balloons
that General Mills put up, because there was one lost in the area to time,
although they were never able to say where it was,
except that it was either over Kentucky or Tennessee.
That's all they've been able to pin down.
And they think that that might have been it.
Is this still classified as top secret?
No, sir, it isn't. That's another...
No, we actually, we carried this confidential overall project.
We're trying to get it dropped down or restricted now, because life is going to come out with a lot of material
we've given them that is classified.
There was classified at one time.
The only time this classified top secret was where it came out.
We've been carrying this confidential.
There are some aspects that we'll have to keep classified as secret or maybe higher.
When we start listing air defense radar stations,
possible tie-in with some of our latest developments and things like that.
We'll have to keep that classified.
But just the details of the sighting,
we're going to try to declassify too restricted.
Because we've had trouble in the past,
and some newspaper will call up and say,
a big sighting up somewhere.
And we'll say, yes, we've heard about it.
And we'll say, what's the results?
We'll say, well, we can't tell you about that.
It's classified.
For me, they came out with a big story about the Air Force.
She's picked up a spaceship somewhere and they won't tell us about it.
And that's the thing we're trying to get away from.
We don't want to excite anybody on the project.
There is one other area that's classified and that's where we have reports on people.
Yes.
They're background, trying to determine whether or not they're alive or not.
You're running the one interesting little discussion on this classification.
If some people who say, well, now, these could be from Russia, which is true.
It could be.
Therefore, we're doing them a great service reporting in our papers.
Very carefully.
They've got plots, which is true.
But we feel that the papers, when they get one, are going to report it.
And then they're going to come to us for what we know on it.
And it's inevitable if the papers pick it up.
So that's one reason we like this reporting channel.
It's established that if anybody excites one, it's not too illogical for somebody
if he sees something in the air to call a nearest Air Force base.
I mean, it's one of the first things we would think of.
Maybe they've got something in the air.
And we have found this is an example of this T-33 case you mentioned.
The reporters were right on hand to discuss this thing with pilots when they landed.
It took pictures of them.
We found out that in the New York area, some paper, I couldn't tell you which one is,
monitors VHF.
Monitor is all air traffic in the area.
And I don't know why they do it, but they do.
That's why they picked up that T-33 incident was monitoring air traffic.
I heard two different stories.
One of the newspapers actually has a set up themselves to monitor.
Another one that they have two or three hams in the area alerted to call them if anything happens.
But this T-33 pilot did call a tower and told them about it.
And those papers are right there.
So we found out one thing.
That is the newspapers surpass the Air Force and their intelligence channels.
They are good, I mean they are just no getting around.
So we can't let them join us.
That's about our policy.
Actually, it goes a little further than that.
I mean, it's a wonderful ally.
I think the project, his varied and his handling a lot just through difference in opinion or changes in opinion.
There's been great interest in it.
And then it would fall away.
Not too much interest in great interest.
And that's officially, too, as well as public.
We feel that by going right down the line, taking every case we get and trying to get additional facts and encouraging anybody and everybody to give us information.
There are a lot of groups that are interested in this.
I don't know if any of you read the time article a few weeks ago on the Sussex.
It was a group out on the West Coast.
And there's a fair time trying to get all of these cases to get work on.
But we feel that that group, who are quite frank with them, would be very cooperative and help us.
I mean, we're not trying to hide anything. We're trying to get help.
You do have a problem with how far you go publicly but I think possibly this lifetime article.
This medium has been declassified in compliance with applicable executive order, statutes, and regulations.